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  #21  
Old 05-08-2010, 12:34 AM
robertkennel
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Pretty smart on TM's part, squeezing another 140 pounds to the spec. Thanks for the answer Jerry, only now I don't feel so smart not figuring out the reason. Robert

Oh and thanks for the pictures of the drone engines. The nozzle looks like a rocket nozzle not like a jet nozzle. I think Wikkapedia needs a correction on the correct description of the engine too.
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  #22  
Old 05-08-2010, 01:05 PM
cochise cochise is offline
 
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The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has a name for this: FALSE AND DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING.

" False advertising or deceptive advertising is the use of false or misleading statements in advertising. As advertising has the potential to persuade people into commercial transactions that they might otherwise avoid, many governments around the world use regulations to control false, deceptive or misleading advertising. Truth in labeling refers to essentially the same concept, that customers have the right to know what they are buying, and that all necessary information should be on the label".

TM advertises the Elkmont as weighing 2498 lb with 320 lb tongue weight. When in reality it is much more. This entices potential customers with little or no knowledge of the "Industry jargon" to believe that they can tow the Elkmont with the SUV they have. And a lot of people love the camping aspect, myself included, and therefore tend to put up with the exaggerations, and hope that nothing serious will happen. And I also realize that TM is not the only one doing it, but they are very aggressive in their marketing efforts.
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  #23  
Old 05-08-2010, 01:30 PM
grakin
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My 2007 2619 has a 500 lbs tongue weight. I'm not sure what a new one would have, nor do I know exactly how much my stuff weighs (but I did pack fairly light and had no water in the camper).

See my post on this:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=10046
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  #24  
Old 05-08-2010, 01:42 PM
rcase13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grakin View Post
My 2007 2619 has a 500 lbs tongue weight. I'm not sure what a new one would have, nor do I know exactly how much my stuff weighs (but I did pack fairly light and had no water in the camper).

See my post on this:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=10046
Thanks this helps a lot. Question would it be possible to fill up the propane tanks at the destination? Risky but the tanks pretty much add almost 50lbs to the hitch.

Also does your TM have the optional cabinets? And finally am I correct in my thinking that a WDH could shift 100lbs off the hitch?
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  #25  
Old 05-08-2010, 02:30 PM
cochise cochise is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcase13 View Post
Thanks this helps a lot. Question would it be possible to fill up the propane tanks at the destination? Risky but the tanks pretty much add almost 50lbs to the hitch.

Also does your TM have the optional cabinets? And finally am I correct in my thinking that a WDH could shift 100lbs off the hitch?
With 2 tanks the weight of both is more like 80#. Some campgrounds have propane service but many don't so I would not count on it.
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  #26  
Old 05-08-2010, 02:45 PM
cochise cochise is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZekenSpider View Post
TM (with the blessing of Dexter Axle) has changed the way it calculates the Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWR). It is now 3,500# plus the weight of tires, rims & drums (items that are not carried by the axle). The axle is still limited to carry only 3,500#, but when you weigh the TM, the scale sees the TM on top of the axle plus the left and right side tires, rims brakes & drums that carry the axle. This total of both values is 3,640# (3,500# + 70# + 70#).

If you weigh the TM with the axle only on the scale (with the hitch load not on the scale) and you see more than 3,640#, you are overweight on the axle. The scale reading will also include any weight transferred to the TM axle by the WDH if it is active.

In the case of the TM 3326K it is still 3,640# per axle or 7,280# with both axles on the scale. That, however would exceed the TM 3326 GVWR of 5,070#.

Jerry
Here is the definition of GAWR:

GAWR: Gross Axle Weight Rating
The MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE WEIGHT each axle assembly is designed to carry, as measured at the tires, therefore including the weight of the axle assembly itself. GAWR is established by considering the rating of each of its components (tires, wheels, springs, axle), and rating the axle on its weakest link. The GAWR assumes that the LOAD IS EQUAL ON EACH SIDE.
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  #27  
Old 05-08-2010, 04:27 PM
grakin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcase13 View Post
Thanks this helps a lot. Question would it be possible to fill up the propane tanks at the destination? Risky but the tanks pretty much add almost 50lbs to the hitch.

Also does your TM have the optional cabinets?
I don't have the optional cabinets.

You could fill propane later (seems like that could be a lot of trouble, and you'd have to drain them when done), or use smaller bottles if you don't need heat (I believe there is a smaller propane bottle than the 20 lb bottles, that still fits the same "footprint" - I want to say the 5 lb or maybe 10 lb bottle). It'd likely be plenty for cooking for a few days, but wouldn't run the fridge long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcase13 View Post
And finally am I correct in my thinking that a WDH could shift 100lbs off the hitch?
I'll defer to the experts here on that one as I don't use a WDH. Note that the WDH weighs something in your calculations, as well.
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  #28  
Old 05-08-2010, 04:49 PM
M&M Hokie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcase13 View Post
And finally am I correct in my thinking that a WDH could shift 100lbs off the hitch?
In theory, the load distribution technique at work in a WDH could ultimately remove all load from the hitch. If you had enough leverage and kinematics didn't preclude the amount of movement needed, you could in theory lift the rear wheels of the TV off of the ground.

The weight isn't disappearing it is just moving to the outer axles. How much redistribution you do is up to you. This is why I am going to do an axle-by-axle comparison at with a few different settings of the WDH. The result will allow me to choose the number of loose links according to how much weight I might wish to redistribute. (If I decide to keep the WDH at all that is. Removing the WDH altogether will probably eliminate 50 pounds)
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  #29  
Old 05-08-2010, 08:29 PM
ZekenSpider ZekenSpider is offline
 
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Location: Chandler, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cochise View Post
Here is the definition of GAWR:

GAWR: Gross Axle Weight Rating
The MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE WEIGHT each axle assembly is designed to carry, as measured at the tires, therefore including the weight of the axle assembly itself. GAWR is established by considering the rating of each of its components (tires, wheels, springs, axle), and rating the axle on its weakest link. The GAWR assumes that the LOAD IS EQUAL ON EACH SIDE.
That is correct, but to clarify what I said: The GAWR as stated (placarded) for a TM is the designed weight carrying limit of the Dexter Axle (3,500#) plus the rotating components (140#) which the axle does not carry.

All of the rotating components are designed to carry at least 3,500# and none are the weakest link (if properly maintained). That is why TM changed the placarded GAWR from 3,500# to 3,640# a few years ago. I think they also realized the 14" wheels were marginal and increased the size in 2010 to 15".

Jerry
__________________
Essie, Jerry and Lil' Bit the Mini Schnauzer-(now replaced by TWO Mini Schnauzers, Sassy and Schotzi)
2010 TM 3326 loaded for 3 day trip, 4955# GTW, 26 gal. water, 9.5 gal. LP, 530# Tongue Wt., 15" Dual Axle, TST Tire monitor, Hensley Cub Hitch
2004 Suburban 1500, 11,100# CGVW
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  #30  
Old 05-08-2010, 09:09 PM
ZekenSpider ZekenSpider is offline
 
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Location: Chandler, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcase13 View Post
And finally am I correct in my thinking that a WDH could shift 100lbs off the hitch?
The attached document gives a very good analysis of how a WDH re-distributes the load. It may be more than you ever wanted to know.

Surprisingly the WDH does not reduce the load on the hitch ball(it does reduce the load on the hitch receiver, but not the ball). It actually increases the ball load and for that reason it is really important to lube the ball periodically. The WDH uses the ball as a fulcrum to lift the back of the TV and push down on the TM frame.

Jerry
Attached Files
File Type: doc Ron GratzWDHanalysis.doc (176.5 KB, 274 views)
__________________
Essie, Jerry and Lil' Bit the Mini Schnauzer-(now replaced by TWO Mini Schnauzers, Sassy and Schotzi)
2010 TM 3326 loaded for 3 day trip, 4955# GTW, 26 gal. water, 9.5 gal. LP, 530# Tongue Wt., 15" Dual Axle, TST Tire monitor, Hensley Cub Hitch
2004 Suburban 1500, 11,100# CGVW
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