Generator and Solar Panel

[grill-n-go]

You may also want to take a look at the Yamaha EF2400i from wisesales.com $1120.00 delivered

This has been very educational. I think I am going to breakdown and get a generator. Been looking on E-Bay. Anyone know about Kipor generators?

[Bill]

Tony -

I never heard of Kipor until your post, so I rummaged around the web. Kipor appears to be bigger in Europe than here, but there are a few distributors in the US.

The 1000-watt inverter unit appears to be a clone of the Honda EU1000i. The only real differences I could see right away are that the Kipor comes with a battery-charging cable, which I think is extra cost on the Honda. And a pair of the Hondas can be connected in parallel to increase power output - the Kipor doesn't seem to have this capability. BTW, you would want a Kipor Ti series unit, not a Tc series unit.

Some pretty good prices seem to be out there. I have found $500 in a couple places, and at least one throws in free shipping as well. See for example http://www.boats.net/kipor/ .

Harbor Freight www.harborfreight.com handles this unit (also $500), and you can download the user's manual from their site. In my humble opinion, the fact that Harbor Freight carries it is not an overwhelming recommendation. Make no mistake, I buy quite a bit of stuff from Harbor Freight since they are just up the road from me - but I never expect to find top-quality stuff there. They are an off-brand/off-price/salvage/surplus place.

I Googled "Kipor" and looked for personal experiences. I did find a few good reports, but I also found some bad ones - see http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...790/page/3.cfm. And I did find a couple Kipor sites that set my teeth on edge. Teknia Micro www.tekniamicro.com is a distributor that doesn't look very serious about anything - their web site is really strange. A&A Generators in Phoenix http://www.buykipor.com went out of business, and sounds more than a bit unhappy about Kipor. No details.

Like you, I sure would like to hear from someone who has owned and used one. Especially since I am on the edge of buying a small unit. The best price I have seen on the Honda EU1000i is about $650. I may decide to pay the extra just for the "legendary Honda reliability" - but now I have some thinking to do.

Bill

If you're shopping for price, you might want to consider the Duro Power 1250i which is available for $399.99 and it's higher wattage than either of those mentioned above. Check out this site: http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=8&FID=1&level=0 I'm considering one of these for the occasional use we would give it - maybe once or twice a year. They also have a smaller one for $20 bucks less. . . try: http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=7&FID=2&level=1

While on the subject of batteries and generators, a little advice for a . We are looking at a 3124KS really hard. One of the questions is how much time on the OEM battery. I have to use a CPAP breathing machine each nite that draws 3 amps. Will the battery last the night if we are frugal with other devices? We too are looking at a small generator to use just for charging the battery and the Honda seems to fit that bill.

Thanks for your help...this forum has been instrumental in our decision to purchase a TM.

You will get about 15 hours on a fully charged battery which will bring it to 50% using just that device. The OEM battery is about 100 Amp Hours and it can be safely discharged to about 50% or maybe 30% without damage. Further discharge will reduce its capacity for future use.

If you plan to run the furnace, that is also 3.5 Amps to run the fan, but it doesn't run very much unless it gets real cold, so keep that in mind. You will have to charge the battery every day. The OEM converter doesn't do a very good job of this, so definitely, get it on charge. The generator will be running most of the day and you won't be able to see what is happening to the battery without further instrumentation. The light device by the sink is a rough indicator.

IMO, you should upgrade the 12V system for this critical need. I put in a PD9160 (60 amp) converter which can charge the battery in 30 to 60 minutes for the type operation you describe. I highly recommend that unit -- actually the PD9145 (45 Amp) is even more appropriate. In addition, you might be wise to put in a second battery.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by ptanner

While on the subject of batteries and generators, a little advice for a . We are looking at a 3124KS really hard. One of the questions is how much time on the OEM battery. I have to use a CPAP breathing machine each nite that draws 3 amps. Will the battery last the night if we are frugal with other devices? We too are looking at a small generator to use just for charging the battery and the Honda seems to fit that bill.

Thanks for your help...this forum has been instrumental in our decision to purchase a TM.

I agree with everything Bob said in the previous post but want to emphasize that use of the overhead lights is what usually drains the battery the most. I agree with Bob that a typical "full" capacity of the dealer installed battery (assuming it's the larger Group27 unit and the not the smaller Group24 unit that some dealers install) is about 100 amp-hours (the battery is a dealer installed item, not a factory item). I also endorse his view that a 50% discharge is the most you should do if you want to maintain decent battery life.

That leaves you with only 50 amp-hours before a recharge is needed. Using your amperage numbers (possibly low) for the CPAP and use for 7 hours equals 21 amp-hours...leaving 29. Each light bulb inside the trailer uses about 2 amps (some a bit more, some a bit less)...if you have 4 to 5 of these on at a time (pretty normal), you're using about 10 amps. Do that for about 3 hours and you've consumed 30 amp-hours, thus exceeding your remaining allowance...and that's still not considering any power drain by the furnace or water pump. And it's also not considering any power drain that might happen if you plug a portable TV into the 12 volt outlet by the TV antenna connector. And if you turn on 6 or 7 bulbs at time, you'll be up to around 40 amp hours just for lighting in one evening.

So what it boils down to is that if you want to have your CPAP and reasonably long battery life, you'll have to be very frugal with lighting (only 2 or 3 bulbs on at a time, total period of evening lighting under about 3 to 4 hours), not use the trailer battery to power any electronics, and hope that you are in a warm place where furnace usage is minimal or nil. And make sure the dealer installs a Group 27 and not Group 24 battery. But keep in mind that staying with only 2 or 3 bulbs illuminated at a time is not going to provide much light inside the actual 28 foot long interior of a 3124...it's going to be pretty dark in there.

Bob makes a very good point that a single battery is going to be very limiting so installation of dual batteries (especially if they are truly deep cycle, like Golf Cart batteries) will double, almost triple your daily power availability. The problem is you'll also need to double, or even triple your recharging ability. But the electrical complexities and retrofitting can get fairly complex and somewhat expensive to do all this. This is not the first time that the subject of powering a CPAP off the trailer battery has come up...my recollection is that the challenges are so substantial that the idea sooner or later gets dropped. You could be the first to actually make this work. Good luck!

ptanner

It's me again. I have been pretty busy. My wife is in very ill health.

The question you asked infers 12V operation and use of a generator. You didn't make your camping plans real clear. If, however, you have hookups, you have no problem at all and that should be your plans for a first outing or two. Dry camping for 2 or 3 day weekend is one thing, but extended camping for a week is another.

Since the CPAP is so important, it might be prudent to provide backup power for that alone.

I think you need to sit down and make a real good plan how to support this all safely. Some of the things to consider (worst case for a week) would be:

* Solar: will I be in a lot of reliable sunlight to make that practical?

* Generator: Sufficient to charge the battery is easy. A 1 KW Honda would be great. Running a microwave or A/C is a much bigger task. You may want or need the A/C depending on the climate. That will require 2000 minimum and 3000 or 3500 optimally.

* Charging system. The OEM unit isn't very suitable for your needs. Most likely, you will want to charge the battery from about 50% to about 90% in 1/2 or 1 hour and not run the generator all day. The older converters were totally inadequate for that with about 6 Amp charging current that decreases quickly. They would need all day charging. The new models are better, but no one has found literature on their output to my knowledge. I would go for a PD9145 or PD9160 seen below.
http://www.progressivedyn.prawnserve...onverters.html
I got a pretty good deal at the link below. Be sure to order the charge wizzard with it or you loose the 4 stages of charging.
https://www.rvpartsoutlet.com/newstore/nojava/index.cfm

* Capacity. Ray & I talked about a second battery and I am pretty sure you will find that important in your solution. Another suprising factor is the amount of degradation in stated capacity one sees at higher discharge currents. The battery will be rated for a 5 Amp rate. Increasing that to 10 or 20 Amp will reduce the capacity of the battery quite a bit. I don't have the curves available, but 70% or less comes to mind.

* Battery meter. Since this is a medical necessity, I would suggest a battery meter (like a gas guage) so you know what is left in the battery. This device monitors your present usage rate and calculates the time remaining on the battery if you should stay at the same rate. This would be a pretty nice feature for you and make you feel a lot more secure when going to bed at night.

* If you will be using a significant amount of lighting at night, you will be wise to install flourescent lamps in place of the cieling lamps you will be using. They will use about 1 Amp instead of 3 Amp. I am comparing the two-tube ThinLight 112 with two OEM incondescants. The ones that are on only briefly aren't as important as the ones that are on while you read or watch TV or whatever for longer periods of time.

You won't get much good from the truck as a charger. It will probably only put about 5 amp into the battery, mostly due to resistance in all the wire in the tow vehicle.

I hope this isn't too discouraging, but you should be informed to understand what you are getting into. Then you can make plans to do this safely.

Best wishes.

[Bill]

ptanner -

As Ray mentioned, there was a LONG and very detailed thread about CPAP machines, with a lot of good info from actual users. It was a couple years ago, I think, but if you do on SEARCH on CPAP, it should come up.

Bill

[Bill]

Bob, Ray, et al -

For an application such as this, I would be tempted to install two identical 12-volt batteries with an isolator switch. Connected in parallel, both batteries come to full charge at the same time. Then, when they are fully charged, you open the switch, isolating one of them. One battery - the "house battery" - is used to power all the lights, fans, furnace blower, water pump, and other loads in the TM. The other, isolated, battery is used EXCLUSIVELY to power the CPAP machine, and nothing else. That way, you can draw down the house battery as much as you want, knowing that you have a fully charged battery for the CPAP machine.

Marine installations - boats - are typically set up like this, with a "house battery" for all the miscellaneous loads, and a separate "engine start battery" that can be isolated and protected. The switches are easily used and readily available. To see an example, go to www.westmarine.com and type 382103 into the Keyword box. And you can read more than you wanted to know about this topic in West Marine's article "Creating a Reliable Battery System".

Waddya think? A pair of 12-volt batteries doesn't have quite as much capacity as a pair of 6-volt batteries, but the isolation feature may trump that fact in this application. By the way, does a CPAP machine have a power-fail warning, a loud beeper or buzzer that will wake you if the power fails? I would hope so. Being awakened by a power failure in the middle of the night would be annoying, but remaining asleep when the machine quits could be worse.

Bill