dust inside from a dusty road

We took our 2002 2619 on our first trip on about 20 miles of dirt road and got the disappoint of our lives. The inside of the trailer was full of road dirt. After we got it cleaned up we reclosed it and looked at the bottom seals. The seals on the ends of the trailer mate against a black rubber extrusion and seem to seal very well. The side seals are suppose to seal against some plastic trim at the bottom of the trailer side. In most areas there was a least 1/4" gap and in the area near the front of the trailer where the seal changes in diameter the gaps were big enough to put my fist thru them . In the area where the wheel covers are located, the wheel covers are so flexible that they bow away from the seal( not ridgid enough to seal). I ask our local dealer about replacing the seals and he said that they had never done that and that he had people who had new TM's with the same complaint. Has any one else had this problem? Does installing new seals fix the problem? Is replacing the seals a major job? A factory job? (I live in Wyoming). Or is it something I could do myself? Anyone know of dealer near Wyoming that is capable of doing the job? Sure would like some suggestions

Since reading some of your suggestions, I closed the trailer up this evening, paying special attention as to the lower seals as the tops were lowered. As the rear half lowered and was latched with the two black handle latches, the rear end of the side seals were tight and the gap grew to about 1/4" at the black handle latches. If I pushed the side in hard near the latch, the latch actually held the side in producing a tight seal all the way. I did the same thing with the front top half with the same results. Now the question becomes will it stay that way when I'm on the rough road. I guess only a trial run will tell.

I still have the gap on the front half where the seal changes from large to small diameter. I've included some pics to show it. I guess the first thing to try is gluing some additional insulation in to fill the hole. I'm just curious. Does everybody have that hole in that area? Thanks for your suggestions. I'll try to let you know what I find out works.

[Bill]

Dust is a problem, though it sounds like yours is bigger than most. There is no place on my TM where I could put my fist (or even a finger) through a seal gap! Smaller gaps, on the order of the 1/4" you describe, yes I have seen them.

On my 2002 2720SL (presumably built the same way as yours), the wheel well liners were sealed to the floor with silicone caulk. Silicone caulk is not right for this application, since it lets go under stress and vibration - not sticky enough. I have noted that in my new TM, the "caulking" around these liners, as well as several other hull penetrations, is done with expanding foam. MUCH stickier stuff - it might help you here.

If you drive dusty roads only occasionally, a complete solution may be more effort than it's worth. Recaulk is easy. And part of it is to make sure that the shells are snugged down tightly, since movement of the shells while towing can cause intermittent gaps. And part of it is to drive more slowly - speed is a bigger contributing factor than you may realize. But if you plan to drive regularly on dusty roads, you need a more complete solution - and I'm not sure what it is.

As an engineer, I am willing to bet that the root cause of the problem is that a partial vacuum is created inside the trailer by the movement of air past the trailer body. The vacuum sucks dust-laden air into the trailer. Are you sure that the two vents in the ceiling were TIGHTLY closed? They would be a wonderful source of vacuum - but of course, the refrig and water heater vents would be, as well.

Assuming I am right, the big solution would be to pressurize the inside of the trailer slightly with clean air. How? I haven't thought about it much, and I certainly haven't tried it - but I bet if you cracked the Fantastic Fan vent slightly, and reversed the polarity on the fan motor so it blows inward instead of outward, you could accomplish it.

This is wild speculation. All you other engineery types - Denny? Ray? - am I crazy here?

Bill

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by Bill

Dust is a problem, though it sounds like yours is bigger than most. There is no place on my TM where I could put my fist (or even a finger) through a seal gap! Smaller gaps, on the order of the 1/4" you describe, yes I have seen them.

On my 2002 2720SL (presumably built the same way as yours), the wheel well liners were sealed to the floor with silicone caulk. Silicone caulk is not right for this application, since it lets go under stress and vibration - not sticky enough. I have noted that in my new TM, the "caulking" around these liners, as well as several other hull penetrations, is done with expanding foam. MUCH stickier stuff - it might help you here.

If you drive dusty roads only occasionally, a complete solution may be more effort than it's worth. Recaulk is easy. And part of it is to make sure that the shells are snugged down tightly, since movement of the shells while towing can cause intermittent gaps. And part of it is to drive more slowly - speed is a bigger contributing factor than you may realize. But if you plan to drive regularly on dusty roads, you need a more complete solution - and I'm not sure what it is.

As an engineer, I am willing to bet that the root cause of the problem is that a partial vacuum is created inside the trailer by the movement of air past the trailer body. The vacuum sucks dust-laden air into the trailer. Are you sure that the two vents in the ceiling were TIGHTLY closed? They would be a wonderful source of vacuum - but of course, the refrig and water heater vents would be, as well.

Assuming I am right, the big solution would be to pressurize the inside of the trailer slightly with clean air. How? I haven't thought about it much, and I certainly haven't tried it - but I bet if you cracked the Fantastic Fan vent slightly, and reversed the polarity on the fan motor so it blows inward instead of outward, you could accomplish it.

This is wild speculation. All you other engineery types - Denny? Ray? - am I crazy here?

Bill

Concur with everything though not sure reversing the powered fan would help a whole lot since the opening is on the downwind (leeward) side of the fan.

My theory is the whole trailer "breathes" on bumpy roads...every time you hit a bump the upper shells bounce up and down and suck in dust around the lower seals as they rise upward. Unfortunately when they drop down, they mostly just blow the dust that's now between walls into the interior. Kinda acts like a big old set of bellows. I suspect the surest cure (though a rather ugly one) would be to securely snug some big cargo straps around the trailer at the front and back of each upper shell to keep them from bouncing up and down. That would also greatly ease the strain on the latches. Not very attractive but oughta work.

[Denny_A]

........, Duane: I had a similar seal gap problem, but had not towed in a heavy dust environment.

When my shells were closed the forward shell rested upon the aft shell in a skewed manner. By skewed I mean the vertical panel on one side was firmly cozied up to the side of the aft shell. The opposite side vertical panel (curb side) angled away from the aft shell vertical surface. I could put a closed fist between the fluffy seal and the aft shell panel. Moving forward, past the aft shell's forward edge, the gap continued. At that point, any dust being kicked up by the TV (tow vehicle) could easily have been sucked into the trailer box.

I could not figure out how to correct the skew. Fortunately I made a run to the factory for a few adjustments when returning from a trip to the Gulf Coast. I pointed out the problem to Donny Pelke (mechanic extraordinaire). He and his helper made a couple of very quick adjustments and (as our wonderful Admin lady used to say) VIOLA!(I would respond Cello! She never got it) - gaps dissappeared and we were good to go.

Here's the kicker. I have no idea what they did. Meaning I can't trust my memory. However, I suspect that if you call Ed Lytle at the factory someone can help diagnose your problem and offer a fix you can handle.

Bill: ...re: partial vaccum. In a condition similar to mine, the aft shell might not rest on top of the forward shell properly either. In that case there could be a small gap between the fluffy seal and the roof (on one side or 'tother). Assuming that a simlar gap exists between the seal ON the aft roof and the forward roof above it. Airflow past the overlapped shells would create said "partial vacuum" since the gap would be in the "suction" zone, aerodynamically. Gap up front and vacuum in back would pull dust into the box.

Speculation, mind you, but possible!

Denny_A

Bill, your theory about how suction is created in the TMs is interesting.

How about mounting a large air scoop high up in the front of the upper shell? Such a scoop could be opened when towing on a dusty road. The air being rammed into the trailer would create positive pressure inside of it and minimize the amount of roadway dust entering through the seals and other openings.

[fcatwo]

In addition to dust, we've also had a mouse problem. We stored the TM at an RV park for a few months while we were working through our move from Alaska to Washington State and a few mice moved in. We trapped them out and vacumed and sanitized where they were nesting and thought little more about it --- until we read in the paper a few weeks later that someone had been infected with hantavirus only 25 miles from where we live. We didn't come down with anything so I guess we lucked out but I think we'll do the mothball thing if we ever store it outside again. I suspect mouse-proofing it would be harder than dust-proofing it.

The sides and the bottom box of the TM work much like a giant bellows as you bounce down a gravel road. Out goes the good air and in comes the bad air. Be sure your ventilators located on the roof are shut tightly so that the boucing does not cause them to come open. Otherwise you will have a road dirt problem unlike any you are experiencing now.

Hal

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Larry_Loo

How about mounting a large air scoop high up in the front of the upper shell? Such a scoop could be opened when towing on a dusty road. The air being rammed into the trailer would create positive pressure inside of it and minimize the amount of roadway dust entering through the seals and other openings.

Larry - that's kind of what I was envisioning as I mulled over the problem. It is probably not very practical. First, if it is raining, it would scoop in rain as well as air. Second, if you are driving slowly (as you might be on a dirt road), it won't ram very well, but the bellows effect that Ray mentioned will still be working. I suppose, though, that the open ram-scoop would at partially defeat the bellows by not allowing suction to build up inside the trailer.

I'm still thinking in terms of a powered vent, but Ray is right. Reversing the Fantastic Fan motor won't work since the opening is on the downwind side of the fan lid, and a vacuum would exist there.

I do recall travelling a horribly dusty road with our 2002 TM when it was new. The cabinet areas, particularly on the stove side, ended up with a ton of dust in them - and this was good Arizona Red Dirt dust, the kind that instantly turns to concrete with the addition of any water (such as a wet paper towel!) That was when I discovered that the caulking around the wheel well liners had failed. I scraped out the orignal caulking material and recaulked, and it helped quite a bit.

Interesting problem. Ultimately, the best solution probably lies in making sure all the lower seal gaps are closed, especailly those around the wheel well liners.

Bill

Bill, one solution, though a little time consuming, might be for the TM owner to apply duct tape between the lower seals of both shells and the body/shell panels. The application would have to be redone at the beginning of every day of driving on a dusty road. It may work and may be worth the carrying of a couple of rolls of inexpensive duct tape if one intends to travel on off-highway, back roads.

If the up and down movement of the shells while traveling on bumpy roads could be minimized, the duct tape might remain in place to create a more effective dust seal.

What really may be needed is an optional, low contour soft seal that's applied to the side panels of both lower shell and body of the TM. Then the standard lower seals could form a very tight seal against the mating set of soft seals. If the optional, low contour seals were 2" to 2-1/2" wide, the sealing action would remain effective even with some bouncing of the shells up and down.

I wondered if mice would be a problem during storage. I updated my original inquiry with pictures of gaps in the seals(one on each side). My wife stores bird seed in a small building in the back yard and the mice are forever chewing thru most any kind of containers to get to that seed. Does moth balls work on mice? I figure if I don't get the holes plugged I'll have mice and dust. I was going to use some packets of DECON inside to try to discourage their taking up residency.