Best Fall Colors are in the Midwest!

[Carol]

Ray, Pam,

Maybe the ice will be out on Lake Monona when you are in Madison so you can try out your new canoes / kayaks / boats on the spot!

Ray, You can always store a kayak up in the garage rafters on hooks or in a sling. The folding boat sounds like a neat idea!

Ray, Come to Wisconsin in Sept. After Labor Day, the bugs are generally gone and the air is typically crisp and clear and dry (well, dryer than normal). Never as dry as the desert, though, thankfully! Next year we will vacation in the summer (maybe in the Canadian Rockies) to get away from the heat and humidity. Then, we'll be home during the best weather of the year up here!

Carol

[RockyMtnRay]

[quote author=Carol link=board=18;threadid=1521;start=msg10764#msg1076 4 date=1068651040]
Ray, Pam,

Maybe the ice will be out on Lake Monona when you are in Madison so you can try out your new canoes / kayaks / boats on the spot!
[/quote]
That's an intriguing idea.

Ray, You can always store a kayak up in the garage rafters on hooks or in a sling. The folding boat sounds like a neat idea!

Therein lies the challenge. Roughly half my garage is under one of my bedrooms with a ceiling height of about 8 feet...not a whole lot of room to squeeze a boat between the ceiling and the top of my TrailManor. Then the garage door with it's tracks and door opener track intrudes another 8 feet on the the other end of the garage...there's only about a foot between the end of the door opener and lower area of the overhanging bedroom wall. And I already have a small motorcycle trailer hanging from the rafters over the garage door. I think I have too many toys (yeah, typical male ). Add it all up and a folding boat is probably the only practical solution. Plus the folding boats are much lighter than most traditional canoes/kayaks and because of their air-filled sponsons, extremely buoyant/capsize resistant.

Ray, Come to Wisconsin in Sept. After Labor Day, the bugs are generally gone and the air is typically crisp and clear and dry (well, dryer than normal). Never as dry as the desert, though, thankfully! Next year we will vacation in the summer (maybe in the Canadian Rockies) to get away from the heat and humidity. Then, we'll be home during the best weather of the year up here!

Actually I've sorta kinda done that. Back in '87 when the Air Force had me stationed in Dayton OH, I rented a plane (Piper Arrow) and flew myself and 2 pals up to Ely, MN for a 3 day canoe adventure in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area. IIRC, we went right after Labor Day and encountered very few bugs...and the temps were quite pleasant (almost chilly the day we left). We hauled our camping gear up with us in the plane and rented the canoe gear from an outfitter (who also arranged our permits into the BWCA). I've had a lot of cool adventures in my life but I still clearly recall that trip and have always had a hankering to go back into the northern mid-West (WI or MN) to do some more quasi-wilderness canoeing. And now that I have the TM, a good truck, lots of schedule flexibility...and soon some kind of canoe/kayak...I will indeed do that. Even if it means breaking my 100th Meridian Rule ;D. Probably not for a few more years though...there are still too many places to explore out here in the Rockies.

[Bill]

Ray and all -

For the Explorer, I bought Malone kayak racks. They are simple side-loading racks that bolt onto the Explorer's factory roof rack, and carry the boats on edge. I thought they would be good, and they are locally made, but unfortunately I cannot recommend them. With the wisdom of hindsight, I wish I had paid the extra for something from Thule or Yakima. I think they both offer racks that mount on a bar that is wider than the vehicle's roof rack, and will carry two kayaks lying flat. Of course, if you are carrying only one boat, it is even easier.

Loading the boats onto the Explorer by myself is just at the limit of my capacity. It requires a weight-lifter's "clean-and-jerk" motion to get the boat from the ground to a stable overhead position, from which I can set it on the rack. My wife usually helps me, but if I had to do it alone all the time, I would buy one of the racks that has a roller at the back. With that, you simply lift one end of the boat up onto the roller, then lift the other end of the boat and roll it on from the vehicle rear.

I have a small pickup truck (98 Ford Ranger) in Maine. I cobbled up a homebuilt rack out of 2x4s padded with carpet scraps, which drops into the stake pockets. It is wide enough to hold both boats lying flat. It is easy to load, because I can slide the boats on from the rear of the vehicle - no roller, but the carpets scraps serve the same function. This is my preferred method of carrying them.

In Maine, I have only a very small garage, and the Ranger stays in the garage in the winter. I ran 4 pairs of sturdy hooks into the ceiling joists. Between each pair I slung a nylon tie-down strap, and I hang the boats close to the ceiling in the straps.

Arizona is easy. Three car garage, and only one car stays there in the off-season, when the TM and the Explorer are in Maine. So I just leave the boats on the floor. During the on-season, when the TM is in the garage, the boats would fit on the garage floor if I rearranged some of my old radios and workbench. They would hang from the ceiling if I got off my butt and installed the hooks. But I haven't done either, so I leave the boats outside on the ground, in the narrow aisle between the house and the party wall (wouldn't want the Homeowners' Association to catch a glimpse of those nasty kayaks, would we?).

Loon kayaks come in several sizes - I have the 138's (13'8&quot, but I know there is also something like a 114 (11'4&quot as well as the 100 mentioned earlier. Shorter means lighter, of course, but it also means less weight-carrying capacity. For a given weight of cargo (i.e., me), the smaller boat will ride a bit lower in the water, and since I since I am more round than skinny, and since I go out when there are some waves, I prefer a bit more freeboard. My guess, Ray, is that you are lot leaner than I am, so a shorter lighter boat might suit you fine. But then, a longer boat tracks a little better. But then, ... Endless arguments both ways, of course.

One thing that drews us to the Loons (besides being dry) is the pure comfort of the seat and seat back. I have paddled kayaks with no seat and a canvas sling back, and they are agony on my old bones. I also like the big cockpit opening - you don't feel like you would be trapped inside if you rolled it. An optional spray skirt is available.

I sound like a salesman for these things. I have no connection with the company, but I just love 'em. Any questions, just ask.

Bill

[Bill]

Ray -

I don't know which boat would be right for you, of course. But garage height should not be the deciding factor.

My garage ceiling height here in Maine is exactly 8 feet - must be some kind of standard. My boats hang as far back in the garage as possible, but they are still long enough that their front ends must hang on either side of the GDO head. So the GDO doesn't enter the equation.

When lifted against the ceiling, the low point of the boats hangs down 15". The cab of my Ranger is 5'5" high. The Ranger fits beneath them, with plenty of clearance. The height of my closed TM is 5'3", not including the A/C or the vents that protrude up from the center. Unless you have some real squirrely arrangement of stuff on your garage ceiling, there ought to be plenty of clearance.

Bill

Ray et al:

Folbot: We have the tandem version which is long and relatively wide. Very stable, but it isn't going to set records. The fastest sea kayaks are 18-20 foot long and only 24-26 inches wide! I don't think I'd fit in one The Greenland II we have stores in two cases, both the size of a big suitcase. It is pretty easy to pack, and if you do it frequently you can get the set-up done in about 15-20 minutes. Folbot does make a solo version (the Aleut) which might be more what you're looking for. I've got really bad knees, and I have trouble getting in and out of kayaks, one of the reasons we have so many canoes and only one kayak.

Canoecopia and Rutabaga's: If you look on the Canoecopia web site there is a list of lodging options. Madison is big enough there is a relatively good choice of the major hotel brands. Some of the hotels have Canoecopia specials; ask when making reservations. Note that Rutabaga is located right on a lake. If the water is liquid, they'll let you try out any of the boats they carry. I'm not completely sure they carry Pak canoes normally, but you can check. Note that they don't do this during Canoecopia; they actually shut down the store for a few days. Of course, the water is also seldom liquid in mid-March in Madison!

Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness: One of the most wonderful places in the world. Set at the border between the US (Minnesota) and Canada, it adjoins the Quetico Provincial Park. Both areas allow only canoes (wilderness - no motors or portage wheels) in the vast majority of the lakes. Access by permit only and quite a few restrictions on camping (specific sites only, no cans or bottles, etc). I've been on 6 or 7 trips there so far, and we're looking to go again this next year. I'm a confirmed BWCA junky! There are also some really nice resorts and (even better to me) Forest Service campgrounds at the edge of the area. Sawbill and Fall Lake are the two FS campgrounds I've stayed at. Both are very nice with easy access to the BWCA. Since you carry your boats and camping gear between the lakes (it's called "portaging&quot lightweight boats are very popular. My Mad River boat is made of Kevlar: 16.5' long and just over 40 pounds. Pretty easy to put on top of the car too! We use a Yakima rack system, and have had it for nearly 20 years (different towers to go on different vehicles, but the same bars and accessories). Incredibly stable and worth the money (IMHO).

Midwest canoeing/kayaking: We do have some nice lakes here, and there are numerous rivers (we get a lot of rain this way - remember all that corn? ). If you decide to come out, give me a holler.

Pam S

[RockyMtnRay]

[quote author=K and P Camping link=board=18;threadid=1521;start=msg10774#msg1077 4 date=1068679641]
Folbot: We have the tandem version which is long and relatively wide. Very stable, but it isn't going to set records. The fastest sea kayaks are 18-20 foot long and only 24-26 inches wide! I don't think I'd fit in one The Greenland II we have stores in two cases, both the size of a big suitcase. It is pretty easy to pack, and if you do it frequently you can get the set-up done in about 15-20 minutes. Folbot does make a solo version (the Aleut) which might be more what you're looking for. I've got really bad knees, and I have trouble getting in and out of kayaks, one of the reasons we have so many canoes and only one kayak.
[/quote]
Yeah, I've been looking real close at Folbot 'yaks the past few days. Very good prices, superb stability, a tad bit slow (especially the Aleut). But the stability really appeals...as does the relatively light weight compared to a hard shell boat.

After measuring every dimension in my garage...and calculating the available headspace when I'm backing my TM in on my steep driveway, a folding kayak is going to be a much, much better solution for me than a hard shell. Plus with a folding boat I won't have to spend nearly $1000 for good quality racks to carry it. And I can just toss the boat bag in the truck bed whenever I head out and if a paddling opportunity presents itself, I can be on the water in 15 to 20 minutes.

Just gotto to go Canoeopia and see these various folding boats (Boats in A Bag ) myself...I'll likely be coming home with one!

Canoecopia and Rutabaga's: If you look on the Canoecopia web site there is a list of lodging options. Madison is big enough there is a relatively good choice of the major hotel brands. Some of the hotels have Canoecopia specials; ask when making reservations. Note that Rutabaga is located right on a lake. If the water is liquid, they'll let you try out any of the boats they carry. I'm not completely sure they carry Pak canoes normally, but you can check. Note that they don't do this during Canoecopia; they actually shut down the store for a few days. Of course, the water is also seldom liquid in mid-March in Madison!

Made my reservations today for a room at the Clarion Hotel attached to the expo center. Actually got a better deal with a AAA rate than with the Canoecopia rate! Sure glad you gave me a heads-up about rooms going fast...I got one of the last ones they had at that hotel.

Don't think that Rutabaga carries PakBoat boats...but PakBoats will be an exhibitor and probably will be offering special show pricing. The PakBoat Puffin kayaks are also extremely lightweight (under 24 lbs for the 14 footer)...definitely on my short list!

Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness: One of the most wonderful places in the world. Set at the border between the US (Minnesota) and Canada, it adjoins the Quetico Provincial Park. Both areas allow only canoes (wilderness - no motors or portage wheels) in the vast majority of the lakes. Access by permit only and quite a few restrictions on camping (specific sites only, no cans or bottles, etc). I've been on 6 or 7 trips there so far, and we're looking to go again this next year. I'm a confirmed BWCA junky! There are also some really nice resorts and (even better to me) Forest Service campgrounds at the edge of the area. Sawbill and Fall Lake are the two FS campgrounds I've stayed at. Both are very nice with easy access to the BWCA. Since you carry your boats and camping gear between the lakes (it's called "portaging&quot lightweight boats are very popular. My Mad River boat is made of Kevlar: 16.5' long and just over 40 pounds. Pretty easy to put on top of the car too! We use a Yakima rack system, and have had it for nearly 20 years (different towers to go on different vehicles, but the same bars and accessories). Incredibly stable and worth the money (IMHO).

Now you're really whetting my appetite to get back to the BWCA...being able to camp virtually lakeside with the TM is a real plus! I remember the portages...my pals and I rented an 18 foot, heavy Old Town and as I recall, it took two of us just to carry that dang canoe (probably around 80 to 90 lbs). But it did carry all three of us (and all our gear) so with 3 paddlers, we could move it along pretty well. I can see why you like your Mad River...40 lbs is incredibly light for a nearly 17 foot canoe.

Midwest canoeing/kayaking: We do have some nice lakes here, and there are numerous rivers (we get a lot of rain this way - remember all that corn? ). If you decide to come out, give me a holler.

Pam S

Hmmm...if you're going to be at Canoeopia, maybe we can arrange some kind of get-together there...perhaps meet for drinks or lunch or something.