Suggestions about new TM

[BradS7535]

Alright everyone, I need some advice and some knowledgeable people to just talk things through with. Sorry if I ramble or my thought process is all over the place.

We ordered a 2016 2720QB (first RV for us) in January knowing they were behind due to the factory move. Dealer told me about 6 month lead time and I was fine with that as we aren't in any big rush to get one, and we want one with the options we want (or don't want as you'll see in a sec).

Order is as follows:
2720QB, awning, swing hitch, LP quick connect on outside (thought it would be nice, anyone have any comments about it?), front window (since it is an option now), and the extra hanging cabinets.

We don't need A/C, or TV antennas, and don't mind cranking down jacks manually, we want a pretty "basic" unit.

After reading about aslag54's problems with his TM order and quality issues I began to worry about the direction TM is headed and if buying a new TM ~$30k is a good idea now or if the units coming out of Nebraska the first year or so are going to have issues down the road.

I've looked at used units and while they are rare here on the west coast (California) I'm beginning to wonder if it would be a better bet to find a used one that was built with the original team in TN. We are planning on keeping the TM a very long time (forever?) for all the reasons people buy TMs (don't want to pay for storing a large RV, can't fit a TT at our house, easy towing, etc). So I don't want to get a unit that is TOO old, and of course I want as many of the improvements TM has made over the years.

So here's what I'm hoping everyone here can help me with, giving me input to my questions below.

1) Reading this forum it seems like 2006 was a big design change away from wooden frames. Are there any particular years that have other big improvements, keeping in mind that we plan on keeping this for a very long time. (I don't really like the idea of buying a 9 year old RV if we are going to keep it for another 10-15 years).

2) One of the reasons we wanted a "basic" model (no A/C, TV antennas etc) was we didn't need/want them and it seems like just another thing that could break/leak. What are the risks of buying a used with these options if we aren't planning on using them? How likely are leaks around these things?

3) Any other wise words from all you helpful folks? I've seen a few 2009s and older but they almost always come with A/C, and all the other "extras" we don't want/need.

Thanks in advance!

[davlin]

Howdy Brad,

I'm sure THIS will be an active thread! My advice to you, for the reasons outlined in your OP, is to look for the best fit for you in a used TM, model years 2005 to 2010. I love TM, but buying new right now to get exactly what you want may be really bad decision.

My two cents.

[br2_wdc]

Originally Posted by BradS7535

Order is as follows:
2720QB, awning, swing hitch, LP quick connect on outside (thought it would be nice, anyone have any comments about it?), front window (since it is an option now), and the extra hanging cabinets.

We don't need A/C, or TV antennas, and don't mind cranking down jacks manually, we want a pretty "basic" unit.

After reading about aslag54's problems with his TM order and quality issues I began to worry about the direction TM is headed and if buying a new TM ~$30k is a good idea now or if the units coming out of Nebraska the first year or so are going to have issues down the road.

I've looked at used units and while they are rare here on the west coast (California) I'm beginning to wonder if it would be a better bet to find a used one that was built with the original team in TN. We are planning on keeping the TM a very long time (forever?) for all the reasons people buy TMs (don't want to pay for storing a large RV, can't fit a TT at our house, easy towing, etc). So I don't want to get a unit that is TOO old, and of course I want as many of the improvements TM has made over the years.

So here's what I'm hoping everyone here can help me with, giving me input to my questions below.

1) Reading this forum it seems like 2006 was a big design change away from wooden frames. Are there any particular years that have other big improvements, keeping in mind that we plan on keeping this for a very long time. (I don't really like the idea of buying a 9 year old RV if we are going to keep it for another 10-15 years).

2) One of the reasons we wanted a "basic" model (no A/C, TV antennas etc) was we didn't need/want them and it seems like just another thing that could break/leak. What are the risks of buying a used with these options if we aren't planning on using them? How likely are leaks around these things?

3) Any other wise words from all you helpful folks? I've seen a few 2009s and older but they almost always come with A/C, and all the other "extras" we don't want/need.

Thanks in advance!

You have some excellent options, so I'll provide some of my humble opinions given I recently was in your shoes looking for decent used TM's.

First, as you mentioned, aslag54 experience would give me pause for concern for purchasing any new TM unit right now. IMHO until Bob and the Nebraska TM folks resolve aslag54 units constant delays, and on top of that the quality issues, I would look at your other options. In fact, you can always look at used ones and keep your new order intact on the hope they resolve these issues, and cancel if you find a good used TM.

Next, you mention you don't want or need an A/C or TV/Cable hookup, but almost every used TM I have seen has those items, so I don't believe you'll have much choice there. Also, I don't believe having them adds any additional concerns for leaks or maintenance, though if you choose to remove them I would be concerned about leaks. Also if you keep those options on, it will help with resale later, whenever that might be.

The good news is you will have a BIG range of choices for used, though being on the West Coast the prices appear to be much higher then the rest of the country. You'll need to decide how far you are willing to travel to see/buy one, and being armed and ready to do a complete pre-purchase inspection.

Bill or others are better equipped to address your question on differences in model years, but the big change from wood in the frames to metal came in 2002-2003.

There are a number of newer used TM's on rvtrader.com, but the other question I would have is what is your tow vehicle and do you know the tow rating, and are you only looking at a 2720 or could you open up your search to other models? I know I had a length restriction based on my garage, and you may have a similar requirement based on your 2016 order had a swing out hitch also.

Good luck on your decision and search ....

[BradS7535]

davlin/br2_wdc,

Thanks for your responses.

I wouldn't remove the A/C or TV antennas or anything, it's just something I don't need and wouldn't use. I was just worried about the fact that they had to cut holes in the roof to put these units, where if I bought new, the entire roof would be solid (except for the vent/fan holes) and that we would have less places for a leak to show up.

Our TV is a 2014 Ford Flex SE. We've added the factory hitch, 7-pin plug/wiring and break controller. The only thing we are missing from the factory tow package is an oil cooler. The Flex with the factory package is rated at 4,500# with a tongue weight of 450#. I wanted to stay as light as possible for the trailer since obviously we will be adding all of our gear and supplies to the trailer weight. Other than the TV limitations, we don't have any space constraints in our carport. If I saw a 2922 that met the criteria I wouldn't mind the king bed, but don't think I would want to go any bigger than that. Another thing with the larger sizes is possibly limiting the number of campsites we will fit into (TM + Flex length). Don't know if that is a HUGE concern though.

[br2_wdc]

Originally Posted by Bill

Brad -

BR2_WDC has made some excellent points. Since he pointed to me, I will add a couple small things.

First, when I bought and owned my 2002 2720SL, it seemed like the overall TM design was in the beginning stages of some relatively big changes, and that these changes were completed by about 2004. Think round wheel wells vs square. Think aluminum shell framing vs wood. And so forth. Perhaps it is just my perception, but I haven't observed another wave of changes like that since then. There have been changes, of course, but most of them have been minor, or incremental, or both. The possible exception could be the move to 15" tires all around, which happened recently. For this reason, I agree with Davlin - anything after about 2005 will have a good design, and the care that a unit has received will be much more important than the initial design.

This brings up a point to remember. We all tend to assume that design changes happened on model year boundaries, since that is how they happen in the auto industry. This is most definitely NOT TRUE with TMs. Because TM has always been a small-production outfit, they phased in changes when it was handy, which means (among other things) when they used up the old parts and started getting shipments of new parts. It also means that they tried some changes, didn't like them, and reverted to the original design. So if you hear that a given change happened on a specific model in a specific year - don't place too much faith in that. For example, as BR2_WDC said, my 2002 had aluminum-framed shells - but not many 2002's did, and many 2003's did not.

Good luck with your search.

Bill

[By the way, Brad, your free Trail Membership has run out, and you now have access to very little of the forum. Since you appear to be serious about getting a TM, I would suggest that you become a Site Sponsor.]

Bill once again comes through .. thank you sir!

Originally Posted by BradS7535

davlin/br2_wdc,

Thanks for your responses.

I wouldn't remove the A/C or TV antennas or anything, it's just something I don't need and wouldn't use. I was just worried about the fact that they had to cut holes in the roof to put these units, where if I bought new, the entire roof would be solid (except for the vent/fan holes) and that we would have less places for a leak to show up.

Our TV is a 2014 Ford Flex SE. We've added the factory hitch, 7-pin plug/wiring and break controller. The only thing we are missing from the factory tow package is an oil cooler. The Flex with the factory package is rated at 4,500# with a tongue weight of 450#. I wanted to stay as light as possible for the trailer since obviously we will be adding all of our gear and supplies to the trailer weight. Other than the TV limitations, we don't have any space constraints in our carport. If I saw a 2922 that met the criteria I wouldn't mind the king bed, but don't think I would want to go any bigger than that. Another thing with the larger sizes is possibly limiting the number of campsites we will fit into (TM + Flex length). Don't know if that is a HUGE concern though.

If you have been on this forum any amount of time, you'll probably realize that any "discussion" on a TV, it's tow rating, and it's ability to tow safely your future TM, can quickly became a "holy war" on opinions and advice.

My only advice would be to make sure your Flex includes EVERYTHING Ford included with the factory tow package, since yours did not have it; hopefully you're only a transmission cooler away! A WDH would be next on the list, but no need to worry about that until you get the TM.

I also agree with your point on limiting the size/weight of your future TM to a 2720. Anything larger such as a 2922 or 3023 would really be pushing the limits of your Flex and IMHO not be an ideal pairing with TV and TM.

Your biggest decision right now is deciding how far you want to travel to find your TM, and your ability to do a pre-purchase inspection to make sure there are no big issues with any of the main systems.

[BradS7535]

Originally Posted by br2_wdc

If you have been on this forum any amount of time, you'll probably realize that any "discussion" on a TV, it's tow rating, and it's ability to tow safely your future TM, can quickly became a "holy war" on opinions and advice.

My only advice would be to make sure your Flex includes EVERYTHING Ford included with the factory tow package, since yours did not have it; hopefully you're only a transmission cooler away! A WDH would be next on the list, but no need to worry about that until you get the TM.

I agree on the TV "discussion" so hopefully it doesn't turn to that! The Flex actually comes with a TRANSMISSION oil cooler, but the tow package includes an ENGINE oil cooler as well. Don't think the engine oil cooler will change the towing CAPACITY, as much as preventing undue wear on the engine, which again goes towards my preference to sticking with the 2720.

[[email protected]]

It's better to have them and not need them, then need them and not have them. If you ever travel to Texas in the summer you'll need that ac! They say here in Texas, when Texans go to hell, they take blankets! As for me, there can't be enough options or improvements. Buying used (like I did) allows that extra cash to improve and upgrade. Although I believe the TM to be a really good thing, one can improve on perfection! (see my website) If I were you, I would buy the biggest baddest tranny cooler you can shove in there. The transmission will be the bigge$t link in your power-trane that you DON'T want to fail out in the middle of nowhere. Keeping it as cool as you can will add thousands of miles to the life of your tranny. In the spring and fall, my tranny ran at well over 180° with the postage stamp cooler that came on the tow package for my Silverado. After I got the biggest cooler I could cram into the space between the grill and the radiator, it stays between 115° and 137° in the summer. I also sprung for the over size transmission pan for extra fluid capacity. The more the better and the longer the fluid will keep it's viscosity. I'd rather shell out a few hundred bucks now instead of a few thousands later on a new rebuilt tranny.
Look...Find....Go Used!
TC

[Padgett]

bought my '06 in '14 and can say condition is everthing. Being a Floridian and dry camping for a week every year, AC is essential. I spent a few months making sure I always have enough power to run the AC and make coffee (have it on right now since 80F out and raining.

One thing to keep in mind is that TMs tend to be nose heavy and it only has a 3500 lb axle. My 2720SL is pushing 460 lbs on the tongue with empty water tanks and a 2922 would be more. (note: the 3500 axle has five bolt wheels. Some have a 5k axle that has six bolt wheels.) I paid less than $10k for mine which was sitting in the clearance area of a behemouth lot (Camping World so also came with a Good Sam membership). I've put another $3k into it mainly for 15" wheels and tires and a new awning plus 200W of solar.

If serious about not needing AC then a pair of GC2 golf cart batteries, 2 0r 3 100W solar panels (what will fit over the bedroom and shade it. Would work well.

Depends on how handy you are but $10-12k for a low mileage example plus another $3k rectification would give years of enjoyment. Now.

[Bailey'sMom]

Hi Brad

Three years ago I was looking at buying a new model. I couldn't find any used ones anywhere close. I Went to two RV shows and spent hours looking at the TM and discussing options. If I bought new I would not have wasted the money on A/C since I dry camp and would not ever use it.

Everyone advised me to buy A/C anyway for resale...but that didn't matter to me since I keep my campers for ten plus years and expected to keep the TM for even longer. Due to the price it was going to be another year before I could afford my coveted TM.

I continued to search Craigslist and literally stumbled across my 2010 2720SD at a big dealer in Colorado. Price was incredible and it looked great in pictures. Bought it sight unseen and have been thrilled with it.

It came with A/C and I have never used it. Don't even know if it works and I don't care. It doesn't leak. Like anything else it will probably need to be caulked at some point.

Even though I won't use it, a/c, when you buy the trailer used, you aren't really paying that much to have that option. And yet if you do for some reason need to sell it, others will indeed want that option and in fact probably won't buy without it. We are the minority.

So to make a long story short, don't worry about that option when buying used because you aren't paying that much extra for it. Instead concentrate on the other things that are important to you. Condition, age, extra cabinets, sofa vs dinette vs extra bed.

Until TM factory gets things back on track....hopefully....I wouldn't touch a new model. Not worth the risk/price. If I'm going to make a mistake I would rather spend $18k instead of $35k.

[Bill]

Brad -

BR2_WDC has made some excellent points. Since he pointed to me, I will add a couple small things.

First, when I bought and owned my 2002 2720SL, it seemed like the overall TM design was in the beginning stages of some relatively big changes, and that these changes were completed by about 2004. Think round wheel wells vs square. Think aluminum shell framing vs wood. And so forth. Perhaps it is just my perception, but I haven't observed another wave of changes like that since then. There have been changes, of course, but most of them have been minor, or incremental, or both. The possible exception could be the move to 15" tires all around, which happened recently. For this reason, I agree with Davlin - anything after about 2005 will have a good design, and the care that a unit has received will be much more important than the initial design.

This brings up a point to remember. We all tend to assume that design changes happened on model year boundaries, since that is how they happen in the auto industry. This is most definitely NOT TRUE with TMs. Because TM has always been a small-production outfit, they phased in changes when it was handy, which means (among other things) when they used up the old parts and started getting shipments of new parts. It also means that they tried some changes, didn't like them, and reverted to the original design. So if you hear that a given change happened on a specific model in a specific year - don't place too much faith in that. For example, as BR2_WDC said, my 2002 had aluminum-framed shells - but not many 2002's did, and many 2003's did not.

Good luck with your search.

Bill

[By the way, Brad, your free Trial Membership has run out, and you now have access to very little of the forum. Since you appear to be serious about getting a TM, I would suggest that you become a Site Sponsor.]