Leaking under kitchen sink

[HoMiPa]

I have recently opened my 2005 TM3023 after it has been closed up, unused for several years. I found the one responsible of winterizing the trailer back in 2009 (read ex-spouse) for the 2nd time, did not do so. The first time we had it fixed at a dealer, as he was not even remotely handy. This time, I plan to do the repairs myself, as I have done plenty of plumbing in the process of renovating my home. I have a PEX crimper, etc. so the tools will not be an issue.

I can not see exactly where the water is leaking, and it could be from several places. The water is coming from behind the tank under the sink - part of it pools under the sink, part of it runs out of the trailer from the wheel well.

I am assuming my best bet is to remove the water heater from the outside first. I'm sure some of you on here have already done so, and I would like to know if that will then give me access to the plumbing behind that tank under the sink.

Any thoughts from anyone who may have had a similar issue?

Not sure if you have a sprayer on your sink, but I would start there. Much of it is plastic and would be the first to crack. Many people forget to drain the spray wand and the shower wand so this is a common problem. Might be easier to remove the sink than the WH.

[ThePair]

What are you doing when you see the leak? Filling the tank? Running the pump? Letting water drain out the sink? Is the system pressurized or not?

I know that I have a small leak where the default fill pipe enters the top of the water tank, so I'll occasionally see a little water there if the tank is overfilled. However, I've had other leaks, and water coming out the wheel well doesn't really help, that's just the lowest point on your set up. Personally, I'd try anything else prior to pulling out the hot water heater...

I have the same model TM as you do. The sprayer is definitely a first-look culprit. After that, I'd check the drain, the faucet. The one-way valve to the city water inlet leaked on me for a bit when I accidentally twisted the gasket in there -- that thing screws straight into the inlet at the TM wall. All of these can be accessed without touching the hot water heater.

Getting access under the sink is easiest by removing the P-trap and drain pipe from below the sink--it just all screws off without tools. If you need a whole lot more access than that, I'd take out the sink, but that'll require a long screwdriver to get to all the clips. Still easier than the hot water heater, and will give you more access to the piping and likely culprit.

First, tell us what makes the leak happen, or not happen.

[Bill]

Like Bob, I would delay removing the water heater until you have a better idea what is leaking. By the time you remove the cold water line, the hot water line, the gas line, and the electrical connections, and then unbolted the water heater, you have a major job on your hands.

Instead, try to figure out what is leaking. Use a flashlight and a small hand mirror to see behind things. I've always found it helpful to remove the doors to a cabinet, as well as the stiles between doors, to ease access. These parts remove (and replace) quickly and easily with a screwdriver.

Once you have found the leak, you'lll have a better idea how to proceed. Let us know what you find.

Bill

[HoMiPa]

Thanks everyone - here are some answers to your questions:

When I first connected the line to the city connection, nothing was leaking. After the hot water tank was filled, I turned on the water heater. Water heated fine, and ran fine from all faucets, no leaks. (Although, the outside shower is leaking but ONLY when I actually turn it on - since I have never used it, I'm not concerned about that right now.)

It was after I tested everything, disconnected the city connection, turned on all faucets and opened the gray water drain that water began running (not dripping) out of somewhere behind the hot water tank. Literally, it is running, and I can't get in there enough to see. It is hitting the supply lines and running down those, but the source is behind the tank, because it is also running out of the bottom of the styrofoam insulation around the tank, at the seam.

After cleaning everything up, I let it dry for a few days, then connected the city water again. I was hoping I could create a slow leak so I could more easily pin-point it, but failed at that - water is running out from somewhere behind there too fast to narrow it down.

I read somewhere on this board that there is enough play in all connections to the hot water heater that you can pull it out without disconnecting any of the supply lines (obviously gas, water & power are all shut down at the source or not connected).

It seems that the caulking around the water heater access panel would be easier to re-install than anything to do with sealing the sink if I pulled that out.

I actually do not have a sprayer. Of course, that isn't to say that is isn't the actual faucet connections that are leaking. But I wondered perhaps if there was some water connection to the hot water tank on the back side - not that it seems like there is based on the diagram.......

I guess tomorrow I will pull the doors off the cabinet and the center post out and see if I can get under there more than I have, with a mirror, and a flashlight, and my glasses at the right angle...... a few drinks may be required for that much coordination.......jk

[Lesherp]

I had a break in my cold water line right where it attached to the sink faucet. I was unable to pinpoint where it was coming from until I pulled the sink, but with mine it was clear that the water was coming from up above somewhere.

Removing doors center post and p-trap drain will give you clearer view of everything. Removing and installing the sink was tight work. I would try narrow down where the leak is if you can before removing anything. If you take a look at my albums there is a picture of what it looks like with the sink out. Good luck.

[jimair1548]

We had our kitchen faucet replaced during a factory "tune-up, and it leaked on the first trip. . It was a fitting....which was difficult to reach, but WAS reachable. The water tank was not removed. We accessed it from under the sink. Give a shot, removing the tank would be a little much....jim

[HoMiPa]

Well. Found the culprit - and it only took 2 hours to take the sink out. Good grief. I may never get it back in again.

First, the stile between the sink cabinet doors can not be removed in my trailer. There are no screws, or even one screw, anywhere. There is however, a shelf, which is apparently glued, stapled and nailed, although I can find no evidence of nails, and the stile also appears to be glued - possibly nailed as well, but the nail(s) have been covered by the edges of the shelf.

Taking the P-trap out of the sink proved useless, as there is still another 8"-10" of pipe leading from the front of the sink cabinet towards the center which had been connected to the P-trap, but can not be removed because the other end is cemented in. Although, to remove the sink I had to remove the P-trap anyway. But it gave me no more access to plumping behind the sink with it out.

Working with a hole that is only about 10" x 10" made it impossible to get under the sink in any fashion.

It literally took me two hours to remove all the clips holding the sink in place. Some are in spots that are almost impossible to access. At one point I was afraid I had my arm permanently lodged between the water heater tank and the upper left corner of the sink cabinet.

The final bracket proved impossible to completely remove the screw so the bracket could be removed. I finally jerked the sink out, which actually broke the plastic connector from the PEX hot water supply to the sink hot water faucet. Seems that was the culprit - it was split at the base of the screw on portion.

Due to inaccessibility to really be able to grip the cold water one enough to unscrew it, I finally cut the PEX. I also cut the hot water supply PEX as well, since I would have had to remove the crimp ring anyway.

With the sink out I will have the room required to work with the PEX crimping tool. However, knowing what a pain it is to get up in there to access the connectors to the faucet and actually be able to grip anything, I believe I will use flexible supply hoses that are used under any normal sink in a home. I think there are ones made that are fairly short (8"? 10"?), and it will allow me to connect the faucet with the sink out, then drop it in place.

Since the screws to the sink brackets were so hard to remove, I'm not sure how well I'll do trying to hold the screwdriver in place, in a blind spot, while being a contortionist, AND hit the hole I need to screw into. I may end up caulking the sink down!

In the end, access to the sink supply pipes would have been easier by removing the water heater. But most likely I would not have had the room to use the crimping tool, which would have meant Sharkbite connectors - I'm not a fan of those, even though they can be removed - mostly because of the cost. They also take up a lot of 'length' and have zero flexibility. If I ever have to remove the sink again, at least I'll have some space to work with by using supply hoses.

I won't know until this is all connected again if I have any other leaks. Obviously, I will test with the sink not yet installed. Nearest HD is about an hour and a half away, so I'll pick up what I need tomorrow on the way to a BBQ. I won't get back to this until Monday after work.

I'll let you know how it goes!

[Lesherp]

Removing the sink is a big pain. Putting it back in no easier. I had to do considerable searching in my toolbox to find tools that would allow me to reach everything to take it out and put it back in.

It sounds like you had the same break in the line I did, only mine was with the cold water. I used flex supply hose like you are considering and shark bite connectors to put mine back together. The shark bite allowed me to put the sink back in and slip the shark bite connectors over the short length of pex I left. You can see a picture of the short end of pex in the pictures I have in my album.

I put flex hose and shark bite on both hot and cold to make it easy to hook everything back up. It took a little calculating to get the right length flex connecting hose and how long to leave the pex ends but it all went together perfect in the end. It was the only way I could figure out how to connect the lines to the faucet as I could not see up there once the sink was in and there was little room for tools or hands.

I think I used long ratchet extension with a flex end and socket at the end to reach the harder sink attachment things.

[ThePair]

I'd wager a guess that if one or two of the far corner sink attachment anchors didn't get replaced, no one would ever be the wiser.

It sounds like someone did some previous work under your sink. My P-trap and drain pipes can mostly all be removed with my hands (I've done it three times, now) and I'm 90% sure I could remove the style between the cabinets with just a screwdriver.

Sounds like you may have fixed the problem, so that's all that matters!