Elkmont mpg

[brulaz]

Have seen a few mpg for the TrailManor drop-down trailers on the site. I think one was around 14 mpg (U.S.) for the 2720, which is not too bad for what you get.

But what sort of mileage would you expect to get hauling the Elkmont at highway speeds with, say, a newer F150, 6 speed? Not in the Rockies, and just a rough guesstimate ... I realize there are a lot of variables.

Currently we have a 2000# GVWR tent trailer hauled with a Passat Diesel Wagen and get around 27 mpg going from Toronto to North of Lake Superior. But age and laziness are getting the best of us.

[mtnguy]

I get 10.5 to 11.5 towing a 29 foot Surveyor with my 2006 F150......and I am really careful on the accelerator (and brake, if that makes sense). The Elkmont is lighter and shorter, but don't expect to get much over 12 mpg. The frontal area just kills gas mileage. That is the big advantage of the fold down models.

In comparision, I got 14.5 to 16.3 mpg with my truck and a 2720, with the average being around 15.2 or so. The better mileages were along interstate, and the lower ones were in combinations. You still have to get 3400 extra pounds moving from a stop, plus the weight of the camping gear and stuff in your TV.

[brulaz]

Thanks. Guess that's what I should have expected: a bit less than half the mileage that we're getting now because there's 2x the weight and the increased frontal area.

But more than twice the comfort, hopefully. We took our tent trailer to Newfoundland and Labrador several years ago. Had a great time but were cold and wet most of it, and swore that we wouldn't go back without a better trailer.

Still looking at possible tow vehicles and am thinking that maybe an F150 V8 is overkill for the Elkmont. The GMC/Chevy compact pickup comes with an inline 5 engine with enough hp and torque (242hp, 242 ft-#), gets about 15-20% better highway mileage, weighs about 1200# less , and is still rated for 5500# towing (ext. cab model).

For some reason the compact Ford pickup (Ranger) only goes up to 3500# towing even with a V6.

[mtnguy]

I don't think the F150 would be overkill for the Elkmont. Heck, I didn't even consider it overkill for my 2720. It is better to have too much tow vehicle than too little. And I am a believer that sometimes a bigger engine will actually give you better gas mileage (and of course more power) than a smaller engine that is working too hard. By what I have read on some of the forums, I should be happy with my gas mileage pulling a conventional trailer. Of course, a lot of that could be in driving technique.

I haven't done a lot of research on the Chevy Colorado (or GMC equivalent) or Dakota, Frontiers, or Tacos, as far as gas mileages, hp, torque, and wheelbases. The Elkmont is a 24 foot conventional trailer, and is probably more prone to sway from traffic and cross winds than the fold down TMs. All of the compacts listed might do a fine job with the Elkmont, but for me I would be more comfortable with a full sized truck......especially in the wheelbase category.

Even though I am a Ford guy, the Ranger would not be an option for me towing the Elkmont.

[brulaz]

Yes, a full size pickup would definitely be more stable. In addition to the wheelbase, they do weigh a lot more, especially ones like your F150 Supercab.

From what I see on the web for new trucks:
A 4x2 F150 Supercab weighs 6800# and has a 145" wheelbase.
A 4x2 F150 Regularcab weighs 4830# and has a 126" wheelbase.
A 4x2 GMC Canyon ext. cab weighs 3621# and has a 126" wheelbase.

Your Supercab won't be pushed around by an Elkmont, but the GMC Canyon weighs about the same as the Elkmont, and I imagine that can be felt, especially when it's windy.

At least the Canyon's Extended cab has a fair wheelbase, the same as a reg full size F150.

As for mileage, I'm not so sure. That's a big difference between a 6800# and 3621# and even if you had the same engine in each truck, those extra pounds must cost something in gas mileage.

I guess it's just a trade-off, like so many things, between towing stability obtained through a heavier, longer wheelbase TV and reduced gas mileage.

If the pickup was only used as a TV, then I would probably go the bigger, heavier route, but as this will mostly be used for other stuff, I'm leaning toward the smaller more economical pickup.

[mtnguy]

I think the weight that have listed for the F150 Supercab is way off. The cerificate of origin on my F150 Supercab 4x4 was 5286 lbs........I can't believe that the new ones are 1600 lbs. more with 2 wheel drive. Now that being said, I ran the truck across the scales and it weighs in at 5800 lbs, with a bed liner, Trac Rac rails, a WDH ball mount, a tool box in back, ~3/4 tank of gas, and my personal things stuffed at varioius places.

A midsized truck may serve you well, as the Elkmont is pretty light for a conventional camper. I can't argue with your assesment of the advantages of a mid-sized pickup.

The point about the Canyon weighing about the same as a trailer is a good one. My TV and trailer are about the same also. There are plenty of units out there where the trailer is way over the TV weight.

Seems like you are doing your homework, and are well on the way to becoming an informed and safe travel trailer owner. A quality WDH with intregrated sway control such as the Reese Straight Line or Equalizer should serve you well, also.

[brulaz]

Thanks, mtnguy, you've been a big help. Running ideas past people can really help sort things out.

And yes, hitches and sway control are on the todo list. I'll probably be back on that, although I see there is lots of info already posted on this forum.

But I've got to work on the financial aspects first ... hmmmm.

A great forum.
Cheers.

[Al-n-Sue]

FWIW - I tow a 3124KB with a 2001 Durango 4.7L, AWD, 3.73 gears. (The 3124 actually weighs more than the Elkmont!) I met a guy at a campground (we were both at the dump getting ready to leave) who had a newer Tacoma pickup with club cab and the 3.5 L V-6, pulling a pretty good sized conventional trailer - I'd guess 26-28 ft. We were both headed over Berthod Pass near Winter Park, CO so we ened up driving mostly together to the pass. I watched him most of the way up the pass. And he pretty much left me behind. By the time I got to the top, he was out of sight. The point being the Tacoma apparently has some good towing capability.
Just something more to think about. Good luck.
Alan

[brulaz]

Yes, I've got the Tacoma V6 on my spread sheet, and it does look nice.

But for some reason the 4x2 only goes to 3500# towing capacity. So it's a 4x4 that I need and the additional cost associated with that. The way they have it packaged, I would have to spend $5000 more than the GMC 4x2 to get up to #5000 towing capacity.

But who knows. The wife is wondering whether a 4x4 pickup is better in the winter. My understanding is that it would be better in low speed, low traction situations like deep snow, steep driveway, or in the ditch. But when hitting black ice at highway speeds, it's no help at all. It's not a high speed, "on-all-the-time" four wheel drive like the suburu, audi or bmw, but more of an off-the-road, slow speed, on-demand sort of thing.

But I could be wrong, the whole business is confusing with every manufacturer using different names for the same product, and/or the same names for wildly different capabilities.

[mtnguy]

No expert on any of this, but here goes.

All Wheel Drive and Full Time 4 Wheel Drive are pretty much the same. If the car feels slippage between the front and back wheels, then the 2nd axle kicks in for traction. That is what the Subarus have, as well as a number of minivans and some other cars.

The kind of 2 wheel drive found in trucks and off-road type SUVs is called Part Time 4 Wheel Drive. You have to physcally shift a lever to go to 4 wheel high or low. 4 wheel high can be driven at highway speeds, and even shifted on the move.......which I don't like to do unless I am going slow. A Part Time 4 Wheel Drive system should not be driven on dry roads.......it needs some slippage between the axles to relief stress on the system. Most of the part time systems also have a low range for rock crawling in the moutains, or if you need extra low speed power, as in beach driving. You can not shift into low range unless you are completely stopped, and in neutral in most of these systems.

You should be able to tell which is in a vehicle by looking inside. A Part Time System will have an extra floor shifter, or buttons or a knob on the dash for the 4 wheel drive.

I have a friend with a 2006 Taco 4x4. I thought he said he had a 6500 lb. tow rating.

[MudDog]

Yes, I've got the Tacoma V6 on my spread sheet, and it does look nice.

But for some reason the 4x2 only goes to 3500# towing capacity. So it's a 4x4 that I need and the additional cost associated with that. The way they have it packaged, I would have to spend $5000 more than the GMC 4x2 to get up to #5000 towing capacity.


The current 4x2 PRE-RUNNER Tacoma's with tow package are rated up to 6500 #'s (for example, Tacoma Dbl-Cab 4x2pre-Runner with tow package).

The Pre-Runner model gives the 4x2 heavier suspension than the non Pre-Runner 4x2 models that are only rated at 3500 lbs.

Current complete Toyota tow guide can be found here:

http://www.toyota.com/pdfs/towguide_Part3.pdf

[brulaz]

The kind of 2 wheel drive found in trucks and off-road type SUVs is called Part Time 4 Wheel Drive. You have to physcally shift a lever to go to 4 wheel high or low. 4 wheel high can be driven at highway speeds, and even shifted on the move.......which I don't like to do unless I am going slow. A Part Time 4 Wheel Drive system should not be driven on dry roads.......it needs some slippage between the axles to relief stress on the system. Most of the part time systems also have a low range for rock crawling in the moutains, or if you need extra low speed power, as in beach driving. You can not shift into low range unless you are completely stopped, and in neutral in most of these systems.

You should be able to tell which is in a vehicle by looking inside. A Part Time System will have an extra floor shifter, or buttons or a knob on the dash for the 4 wheel drive.


Thanks, that's a great description, and I think this is what we are looking at. I also remember the constant problems we had with transfer case in trucks at work that that were driven in 4 wheel (high) on mostly dry pavement.

And thanks for the Toyota towing guide, MudDog. But it seems that Toyota Canada has a different set of and fewer options available than Toyota USA. I just rechecked their 2010 Canadian Towing guide, and there is no Pre-Runner option anywhere. The only way I can even get a V6 engine is in the 4x4 model. I'll give them a call to be sure, but it's not uncommon for us to have fewer choices with the smaller market up here in Canada. Irritating, to be sure.

But we may go to 4x4 anyway. When we drove up from Florida last week (no trailer) we ran into snow north of Charleston W.V. There was a lot of slush where 4-wheel (high range) would have been useful. The traction control on the Passat got quite a work-out, and my wife remembers the experience.

But, whew, this thing is getting expensive ...

[brulaz]

The current 4x2 PRE-RUNNER Tacoma's with tow package are rated up to 6500 #'s (for example, Tacoma Dbl-Cab 4x2pre-Runner with tow package).

The Pre-Runner model gives the 4x2 heavier suspension than the non Pre-Runner 4x2 models that are only rated at 3500 lbs.


Couple of questions as I just spotted a used 2006 Dbl-cab 4x2 Pre-Runner from the U.S. on sale here in Toronto.
1) How do you tell it's a Pre-Runner? It "looks" heavy duty ...
2) How do you tell if the tow-package was installed?

If the guy selling it has gone to the trouble of converting the U.S. registration to Ontario, and it otherwise checks out, I may be able to persuade the wife on a "bargain" 4x2.

[MudDog]

Couple of questions as I just spotted a used 2006 Dbl-cab 4x2 Pre-Runner from the U.S. on sale here in Toronto.
1) How do you tell it's a Pre-Runner? It "looks" heavy duty ...
2) How do you tell if the tow-package was installed?

If the guy selling it has gone to the trouble of converting the U.S. registration to Ontario, and it otherwise checks out, I may be able to persuade the wife on a "bargain" 4x2.

The door sticker should have the weight rating for the truck and probably indcates the model...I'll check mine when my wife brings the truck back later today :)

You may also be able to have Toyota or a dealer look up the VIN (or maybe a CarFax report) and give you the details on the model and whether it had the factory tow package or not.

[brulaz]

Thanks MudDog, but that one didn't have a hitch, so no trailer package. Besides the wife is digging in her heels over the 4x4 as she wants to be able to drive it in the snow.

The good news is that there's some pretty reasonably priced used Tacoma 4x4's with the towing package in the Toronto area.

[brulaz]

Well, the good news is that we've almost closed a deal on a new Elkmont.

The bad news is that all those used 4x4 Tacoma's with the Factory tow package are Double cabs and just too long to be easily parked in our Condo parking spot. And used Tacoma 4x4 short cabs with the Factory tow package are rare.

So we're looking at one without the Factory tow package, and installing an aftermarket 7pin wiring harness, quality brake controller and receiver. This should give us 5000# towing capacity. I also want to put on an aftermarket transmission cooler just because we're going to the Rockies. The Factory tow package also adds an oil cooler and beefier alternator and battery to get the tow rating up to 6500#, which hopefully are not necessary for us and the Elkmont?

Also, I've read here (I think ?) that it's always better to get the Factory wiring for trailers. But I'm not sure why.

Are we making a mistake by considering aftermarket products?
Should we hold out for a 6500# Factory tow package?

[Wavery]

Well, the good news is that we've almost closed a deal on a new Elkmont.

The bad news is that all those used 4x4 Tacoma's with the Factory tow package are Double cabs and just too long to be easily parked in our Condo parking spot. And used Tacoma 4x4 short cabs with the Factory tow package are rare.

So we're looking at one without the Factory tow package, and installing an aftermarket 7pin wiring harness, quality brake controller and receiver. This should give us 5000# towing capacity. I also want to put on an aftermarket transmission cooler just because we're going to the Rockies. The Factory tow package also adds an oil cooler and beefier alternator and battery to get the tow rating up to 6500#, which hopefully are not necessary for us and the Elkmont?

Also, I've read here (I think ?) that it's always better to get the Factory wiring for trailers. But I'm not sure why.

Are we making a mistake by considering aftermarket products?
Should we hold out for a 6500# Factory tow package?

I think if it were me, I'd find a Toyota Truck Forum and ask that question.

Aftermarket wiring harnesses and oil coolers are fine. However, I don't really think that's the extent of the trailer pkg from Toyota these days.

I may be wrong but it could include beefier suspension parts, brakes, trans clutches, final drive gear ratios and/or other things. You may find better informed people in a Toyota Truck forum.

[ShrimpBurrito]

I used to tow our 1500 lb Boston Whaler through the Sierras and from Portland, Oregon to the coast with our 4.0L 6-cyl Jeep Cherokee. It was not unusual for the oil filter to blister. Your Elkmont will be more than twice that weight. IMHO, the oil filter adds alot of value.

Installing a 7-wire harness is not a 10-min job. You'll need to run wire from the battery, braking circuits, and signal circuits from under the hood all the way to the bumper. Obviously, you wouldn't need to do that with a factory tow package, and as a result, installing a brake controller would be a breeze.

If you don't have a powerful enough alternator, your TM batteries may not charge at all while underway. In fact, you may not be able to run the fridge, either, without running your TM batteries down.

In addition to all of that, harveyrv mentions the possibility that there may be alot more to the towing package.

You say the short beds are rare.....but they are out there. If you expand your search to the entire U.S., you could pay $400 to fly there (cross country) and check it out, fly home, and have it transported to your door for $1500 (cross country). So it would basically cost you a $2,000 premium to buy out-of-state. You're going to spend a good portion of that in properly equipping a non-towing package vehicle, not to mention all the hassle and cost of installing it, or getting it installed. To me, that's a wash financially, so I would strongly consider expanding your search.

Carmax might be a good place to check. They have lots across the country and will transfer them to a lot close to you for a fee (less than $1000 IIRC). And I want to say they also have a 30-day money back guarantee.

Dave

[bfezel]

IMHO it seems that the Tacoma is not going to be enough truck to SAFELY handle the Elkmont. There is a big difference between just getting by with a tow vehicle and having something that gives you the comfort level that all is under control. Given the big investment that you are making on the Elkmont it would seem prudent to go with a full-size TV. Now this advice and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Bill

[brulaz]

Ok. We'll look harder. I've sent an email to one right now.

Even if we do buy the Elkmont tomorrow, we can't bring it up to our cottage until April because of the snow. So I have the some time.

If the Factory tow route doesn't pan out, I'll head to a Tacoma forum and start bugging them.

But it's my understanding that the big frig in the Elkmont is only two-way. It doesn't use battery power. So the beefed up truck electricals didn't seem too important.

[brulaz]

IMHO it seems that the Tacoma is not going to be enough truck to SAFELY handle the Elkmont. There is a big difference between just getting by with a tow vehicle and having something that gives you the comfort level that all is under control. Given the big investment that you are making on the Elkmont it would seem prudent to go with a full-size TV. Now this advice and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Bill

Thanks Bill, but this is all about compromises.

I would love a full size F150. But, a 4x4 (wife demands this) is just too big for our Condo parking, much heavier and will burn more gas.

Of the compact 4x4 pickups, the Tacoma has the most power and torque with a 5 speed tranny. (I was originally looking at a GMC Inline 5, but the 4 speed tranny, although tough, didn't seem right for the Rockies.)

And the Tacomas seem to have a good reputation on this board. There are several posters running them.

[mtnguy]

The bad news is that all those used 4x4 Tacoma's with the Factory tow package are Double cabs and just too long to be easily parked in our Condo parking spot. And used Tacoma 4x4 short cabs with the Factory tow package are rare.



In addition to all of the good advice already given, I will throw this suggestion in the pot. A long wheelbase is a good thing when towing a trailer, especially a conventional 24 footer. A Taco with a 5000, or better yet a 6500 lb. tow rating, should handle that trailer fine, as long as it is 1 of the longer wheel base models. That might be why you can't find a regular cab with the towing package......Toyota probably does that to encourage safer towing. A regular cab Taco wheelbase is 109", an access cab and the double cab short bed are both 127" (apparently the bed is shortened on the double cab), and a double cab with long bed is 140". The last will would be the best, but the 127" wheelbases should work OK.

Plus, I only see the 4 cyl. offered with the regular cab. I think you will need that V6 to pull all of that frontal area going down the road.

Here is a widely used tow vehicle wheel base/trailer length chart for conventional trailer towing:

110" 20' **** 150" 30'
114" 21' **** 154" 31'
118" 22' **** 158" 32'
122" 23' **** 162" 33'
126" 24' **** 166" 34'
130" 25' **** 170" 35'
134" 26' **** 174" 36'
138" 27' **** 178" 37'
142" 28' **** 182" 38'
146" 29' **** 186" 39'

Of course, the folding Trailmanors are a different story, since you don't have all of that upright area to contend with.

And something else I don't think was mentioned, is that a Taco with a towing package probably includes a lower (higher numeric) final gear ratio.....a good thing while towing, but might hurt you non-towing mileage.

Just food for thought.

[brulaz]

Ooops. My bad. I should have said "access" cab, not short cab. I don't think they even sell a regular, short cab in Canada. And the V6 with a 5 speed automatic for sure.

Just wrote the cheque for our Elkmont.

For the Canadians out there, Ruston R.V. in Hamilton ON, the only TrailManor Canadian dealer AFAIK, told me that they are not importing the Elkmont so you will have to do it yourself. There's a couple of threads on how to do it, and it looks simple.

But you don't want to be paying U.S. state taxes as well as the GST+PST (or HST). There's a few states that don't charge sales tax at all or not on vehicles purchased for export. I bought mine at Texas R.V. Center, but there's also a couple of TrailManor dealers in Oregon, and perhaps elsewhere.

Now all I need is the truck ...

[PopBeavers]

fwiw, mostly on the subject of longer wheelbase is better...

I have two trucks that are very similar:

2002 Silverado 1500HD crew cab with 6.5 foot bed 4 speed automatic
2009 Sierra 2500HD crew cab with 8 foot bed 6 speed automatic

both are 6.0 gas 4x4

When towing a 4,100 pound TM 2720 I can tell the difference, because the rig "porpoises" less with the Sierra. I attribute that to two things, stiffer suspension and longer wheelbase.

For the Silverado I use a Prodigy knock off add on brake controller. The Sierra has the factory integrated brake controller. Much smoother operation. Less bumping and grinding. Much more responsive.

I also like my Sierra over the Silverado because it has the factory towing mirrors instead of the McKesh strap on mirrors.

Both get the same fuel economy (or lack thereof).

Both trucks are bigger than they need to be. I like it that way. But my budget is not your budget.

The Silverado became my daily driver when my beater Sentra died last summer. I have logged 7,600 miles on the Sierra since August 2008, when we bought it.

For sake of completeness, I would never have tried towing my Trailmanor with the 97 Dodge Dakota I had until recently.

[brulaz]

I bet the Sierra's 6 speed automatic is nice in the mountains as well.

[PopBeavers]

I bet the Sierra's 6 speed automatic is nice in the mountains as well.

I know it is there, but I do not feel any difference.

I suspect that if I was towing heavier then it would be more noticeable.

What I do notice about the 6 speed transmission is when it automatically downshifts while going downhill to engage engine braking. I no longer have to do that. Just set it in drive and forget it.

[brulaz]

Well, we just purchased a used 2009 Tacoma 4x4 TRD-Sport with the tow package.

And, after all our fussing about keeping things small, one look at the smaller Access cab changed everything. Too cramped the wife said. So we ended up with a Double Cab four door.

It's just as long as a full-size pickup (141"), but not as wide or as heavy, and so a little easier to maneuver as a second (non-towing) vehicle. But it won't fit in the underground garage; we'll have to park it outside. The other thing I'm not sure about is the electric blue paint job.

Anyway, I've started collecting mileage data and will post back here with the info with and without the Elkmont after we make the trip to Texas to pick up the trailer.

Many thanks to all for the advice here.

[Scott O]

Hey, being from SoCal the color is not electric blue. It is DODGER BLUE! And it is a great color!!! Congrats on your new purchase(s). I'm sure yu will be very happy with them.

[Dave E]

Hi All,
For what it's worth, I'll say my wife and I use our 2008 Buick Enclave (AWD, Factory tow package, 119" wheelbase, 5,000lb curb weight, 4500lb tow capacity) to tow our Elkmont. We have installed a ProPride hitch and BrakeSmart brake controller. Semi's passing with the trailer are no differernt than when not towing. We get aroung 12+MPG towing here in Colorado and around 20-22 when not towing. We really like our Enclave. It is just a very comfortable car to travel in. I call it a "Land Yacht". We bought the Elkmont because it could be towed by the Enclave. We didn't want to give up our comfortable car for a truck and we didn't want to have to buy and maintain a truck only for towing. So far so good.
Just my two cents.

[brulaz]

Yes, that's how we've operated until now. A single vehicle (Passat Wagen, diesel) for both towing (tent trailer) and around town. The Passat gets 38 mpg on the highway, and is a very comfortable Highway Cruiser, but the max towing is only about 2000-2500#. So a heftier vehicle was necessary for the Elkmont.

One car is definitely cheaper than two, but on occasion it would be nice to have a second vehicle available. And, trading in the Passat would definitely be a money loser. It's still got a lot of life left in it, and I love it dearly. Finally, the prospect of driving a bigger, lower-mpg tow vehicle for our daily business didn't really appeal, although the Enclave is a nice piece of work.

So we bought a separate TV. But, as you say, an empty 4x4 pickup can be be a rough ride, especially on the rural frost-heaved roads we have around here. Taking the Tacoma out the other day, I was really rattling around, wishing I had taken the Passat. But with 600# on the hitch, more #'s in the bed and on half-way decent (summer) roads, that will certainly improve. We'll see in about four weeks. Meanwhile, it just makes sense to use the Passat for everything but towing the Elkmont.

[Wavery]

Well, we just purchased a used 2009 Tacoma 4x4 TRD-Sport with the tow package.

And, after all our fussing about keeping things small, one look at the smaller Access cab changed everything. Too cramped the wife said. So we ended up with a Double Cab four door.

It's just as long as a full-size pickup (141"), but not as wide or as heavy, and so a little easier to maneuver as a second (non-towing) vehicle. But it won't fit in the underground garage; we'll have to park it outside. The other thing I'm not sure about is the electric blue paint job.

Anyway, I've started collecting mileage data and will post back here with the info with and without the Elkmont after we make the trip to Texas to pick up the trailer.

Many thanks to all for the advice here.

Just be aware.....you may be past "border-line" with that 2009 Tacoma 4x4.

These are the figures that come up on Cars.com
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;jsessionid=GWkVsXWYYfB871RmLPHa-Az?tab=specs&paId=331141278&recnum=&actLog=&listingId=33978592&paId=331141278&listingRecNum=0&criteria=sf1Dir%3dDESC%26alMdId%3d22250%26mkId%3d2 0088%26stkTyp%3dU%26mdId%3d22250%26rd%3d30%26crSrt Flds%3dstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId%26zc%3d90048%26rn%3d0%26PMmt%3d1-1-0%26stkTypId%3d28881%26sf2Dir%3dASC%26sf1Nm%3dpric e%26sf2Nm%3dmiles%26alMkId%3d20088%26rpp%3d50%26fe edSegId%3d28705&tracktype=usedcc&pageNumber=&numResultsPerPage=&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE&certifiedOnly=false&aff=national

Curb weight 4,100 lbs.
GVWR 5,450 lbs.
Payload 1,350 lbs.
Towing capacity 3,500 lbs.
GCWR 8,100 lbs

Of course, the tow pkg may add some to the "Towing Capacity" but you might want to check your actual GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating). That is the total weight that the vehicle is rated for including totally loaded TV and trailer (incl passengers, cargo and fuel).

@ 8100# that doesn't leave a lot of weight for trailer cargo & passengers after you subtract the GVWR of 5450# (most people, camping, usually load the vehicle up pretty good and that # includes the trailer tongue weight).

8100 - 5450= 2650# for your fully loaded trailer. I hope that your actual GCWR is closer to 11,000# but I doubt it. I would be very cautious towing an Elkmont in the mountains with that TV. If that 8100# GCWR is correct, you may have a real problem on long down-hill grades.

Towing is a lot more about stopping than it is about pulling. Pulling slow may take a little longer but not being able to stop could be deadly.

[brulaz]

The tow package on the 4x4 Tacoma boosts the Tow Capacity to 6500# and the GCWR to 11,100#. The rest of the numbers are the same.

But I'm pretty cautious towing in the Mountains anyway, using engine compression as much as possible to brake down hills.

[Wavery]

The tow package on the 4x4 Tacoma boosts the Tow Capacity to 6500# and the GCWR to 11,100#. The rest of the numbers are the same.

But I'm pretty cautious towing in the Mountains anyway, using engine compression as much as possible to brake down hills.

That's great!!!!! I knew that the tow capacity would be higher, I just wasn't sure about the GCWR. That's the same GCWR that I have on my Chevy 1500 Silverado. I'm impressed.......

A boost of 3,000# on the GCWR would seem to indicate that the factory tow package may include larger brakes and suspension parts.

[brulaz]

A boost of 3,000# on the GCWR would seem to indicate that the factory tow package may include larger brakes and suspension parts.

I'm a bit more cynical, actually.

I suspect they low-ball the tow specs on cheaper models to force you to upgrade, just to get the tow package. On a new vehicle, in Canada at least, you have to upgrade to a 4x4 and then add all sorts of other stuff (TRD-Sport package) to get the tow package. Easily adding $10,000 to the vehicle. Even the 4x4 without the tow package is only rated at 3500# which, I think, is ridiculous. All the other compact, auto V6's out there have a 5000# tow rating.

AFAIK, the tow package only includes the hitch, 7 pin wiring, tranny and oil coolers, and boosted alternator and battery. I've never seen any mention of brakes, heavy duty suspension, different rear differential, etc. All these can be done after-market for much less.

On the other hand, my wife always says I'm too negative! Whatever, we're happy with the vehicle so far.

[Wavery]

I'm a bit more cynical, actually.

I suspect they low-ball the tow specs on cheaper models to force you to upgrade, just to get the tow package. On a new vehicle, in Canada at least, you have to upgrade to a 4x4 and then add all sorts of other stuff (TRD-Sport package) to get the tow package. Easily adding $10,000 to the vehicle. Even the 4x4 without the tow package is only rated at 3500# which, I think, is ridiculous. All the other compact, auto V6's out there have a 5000# tow rating.

AFAIK, the tow package only includes the hitch, 7 pin wiring, tranny and oil coolers, and boosted alternator and battery. I've never seen any mention of brakes, heavy duty suspension, different rear differential, etc. All these can be done after-market for much less.

On the other hand, my wife always says I'm too negative! Whatever, we're happy with the vehicle so far.

What is the final drive ratio on that Tacoma?

[brulaz]

Well, the differential is 3.73, I think.

For comparison, the differential numbers I have for the Ford 150, GMC Canyon, Dodge Dakota and Mazda B-Series compact are 3.55, 3.73, 3.92, 4.01 respectively.

5th gear in the auto is 1.0 (4th is 0.73) and High in the 4x4 transfer case is 1.0 too.

Of all the V6 compacts, the Tacoma has the most torque, but it's reported at 4000rpm (266@4000). The Ford F150 V8 has 294@4000. Not sure how they do at lower rpm's. My Passat diesel may have more (247@1900)! I would love a small diesel in this thing.

[madjan]

we got around 12 mpg with our toyota fj.. 4.0 v6 pulling at first with a side wind then dead into it for about 90 miles..

[Wavery]

Well, the differential is 3.73, I think.

For comparison, the differential numbers I have for the Ford 150, GMC Canyon, Dodge Dakota and Mazda B-Series compact are 3.55, 3.73, 3.92, 4.01 respectively.

5th gear in the auto is 1.0 (4th is 0.73) and High in the 4x4 transfer case is 1.0 too.

Of all the V6 compacts, the Tacoma has the most torque, but it's reported at 4000rpm (266@4000). The Ford F150 V8 has 294@4000. Not sure how they do at lower rpm's. My Passat diesel may have more (247@1900)! I would love a small diesel in this thing.

Torque is measured at the flywheel. That's why I asked about the final drive ratio. The lower the gears, the more torque that gets to the ground at the same vehicle speed (because of the higher engine RPM).

The thing that I really loved about my S10 4.3 V6 was that it developed 260# of torque @ 2600RPM. My Silverado 4.8 V8 develops 295# @ 4000RPM and less torque at 2600RPM then the 4.3 V6 did. Like your Tacoma, the max torque is reached @ 4000RPM and no one revs their engine that high over long steep grades (at least I hope they don't). Therefore, the "Real" pulling power on the S10 4.3 V6 was higher (plus the truck was substantially lighter).

I would think that your Tacoma has about the same (or even higher) actual pulling power as my Silverado V8 (3.23 gears) due to your lower gear ratio and far lighter weight (you are probably 2K# lighter over-all).

However, pulling power is only part of the towing experience. What really counts is breaking power. We are probably about equal there. Your truck being lighter allows for your smaller brakes. However, you should be very cautious on long down-hill grades (as should we all). That TM is going to be pushing you hard and the electric brakes on the TM will fade sooner than your truck brakes will. If/when the TM brakes fade, your TV brakes may be shortly behind them.

[brulaz]

We just got back from Texas with our Elkmont. Got 14 mpg(US) on the straight and level, cruising on auto-pilot in fifth gear. But only 11 mpg(US) when buffeted by 30-40 mph winds off Lake Erie. No auto-pilot then. It was also close to freezing then which reduces fuel efficiency. Overall, got 12.5 mpg(US) for the trip.