Actual weight of my TM [Archive] - TrailManor Owner's Forum

ED-n-KEL

09-09-2009, 08:37 AM

One of our members wanted to put together a TM weight page. The idea was to collect some real-world scale-weighed weights, of TMs fully loaded for camping and ready to go. Part of each entry would be the TM model number, part would be a list of factory and aftermarket options on each TM, and part would be an assessment or summary of what personal stuff is included. The hope was to get us past the eternal confusion about dry weight, and the endless guessing about how much the food and water, etc, weighs.

I think this is a great idea. I would possibly include two columns...one for "empty/stored" and one for "loaded", with basic summary of load, as you suggest.
I think most owners will initially have "loaded" weights, but I would have the option to add the "empty/stored" weight when/if they get it. Personally, I would be very interested in the "empty/stored" weights just to have some solid numbers to compare to TM's published weights (what everyone seems to go by).
Since everyone camps differently, which in turn means everyone packs differently, the "empty" weight seems to be the more reliable platform to build from.
The combination of these two numbers should help the "3500 lb" members make more of a educated and safer decision.

mjlaupp

09-10-2009, 09:02 AM

.... Personally, I would be very interested in the "empty/stored" weights just to have some solid numbers to compare to TM's published weights (what everyone seems to go by). ...

There is another weight published for each of the newer TMs. Look at the inside of the sink cabinet door. You will find a "wet weight" for your unit.

Mike

gocntry

09-10-2009, 10:06 AM

There is another weight published for each of the newer TMs. Look at the inside of the sink cabinet door. You will find a "wet weight" for your unit.

Mike

My 2008 Has That...

Just for Reference....

I Have A 2720 Options Are Ac, Awning, Stove & Sink Hanging Cabinets, Swing Hitch, 40 Gal Water Tank, Amplified Tv Antenna, 17" Lcd Tv Screen As The Major Options.

The Sticker Shows The Following

GVWR - 4166 Lbs - Total Weight Allowed
UVW - 3095 Lbs - I'm Guessing That's With Options - But Dry Weight
Water - 332 Lbs - I Have A 40 Gallon Tank @ 8.3 Lbs / Gal.
LP - 45 Lbs - 2 20 Lb Tanks (10 Gallon) @ 4.5 Lbs / Gal.

This Should Leave Me With 694 Lbs Carring Capacity At Maximum Load

So The Dry Weight On The Trailmanor Site Listed At 2742 Lbs For A 2720 If You Are Adding Any Options You Are Probably At The 3000 LB Range Pretty Easy

ZekenSpider

09-11-2009, 02:10 PM

My 2008 Has That...

Just for Reference....

I Have A 2720 Options Are Ac, Awning, Stove & Sink Hanging Cabinets, Swing Hitch, 40 Gal Water Tank, Amplified Tv Antenna, 17" Lcd Tv Screen As The Major Options.

The Sticker Shows The Following

GVWR - 4166 Lbs - Total Weight Allowed
UVW - 3095 Lbs - I'm Guessing That's With Options - But Dry Weight
Water - 332 Lbs - I Have A 40 Gallon Tank @ 8.3 Lbs / Gal.
LP - 45 Lbs - 2 20 Lb Tanks (10 Gallon) @ 4.5 Lbs / Gal.

This Should Leave Me With 694 Lbs Carring Capacity At Maximum Load

So The Dry Weight On The Trailmanor Site Listed At 2742 Lbs For A 2720 If You Are Adding Any Options You Are Probably At The 3000 LB Range Pretty Easy

As Bill indicated, I might jump into this thread. I confess that I have been working on a way to gather and summarize the Real World weight information. I too have noticed the "internal" weight sticker information posted on my 2010 3326K. My stickers (inside and outside) clearly give the actual (maybe calculated) weight of my TM when it was shipped (Base Weight + combined weight of all ordered options). This is still a "Dry Weight" but clearly shows that options markedly subtract from the carrying capacity of the TM. Never-the-less, it is the "official" placard and gives the manufacturer's certified weight limits for that specific TM Model and Serial Number.

Of specific interest to me as I looked at my placard, was the knowledge that the Gross Trailer Weight for my 3326K remained identical to the advertised GTW even though TM increased the wheel size from 14" to 15". Apparently, the load carrying capacity of the tires or axles were not the limiting factor. I'm am definitely interested in the data "wmtire" is putting together.

What all of this tells me is: the sales brochure Base Weight really has little use to members trying to figure out what they can tow and it just makes the summary sheet larger. It does suggest, however, that most people will find their actual weight will come close to the GTW as stated in the brochure.

You will see this problem on the attached .pdf of the Excel spread sheet that I have together so far. The actual weights have come from reading information posted by the members that I have identified. The Base Weights have come from the TM 2010 web pages. I have also tried to identify some of the earlier TM models that are in circulation or may be still around.

The progress on this project is slow since neither Bill nor I know exactly how to get the actual weight data (other than maybe it will be contributed as a result of these posts) and how to limit the displayed data. The Base Weight information really has no bearing on the Real World Weight since almost every TM has options installed. The recent posts by "gocntry" and "mjlaupp" are good information and the post by "ED-n-KEL" suggest a summary structure that may work.

Once it is gathered, Bill could make it available in some prominent place on the site. I will continue to update it as new information is gathered.

Another difficulty is gathering all of the replies to this request in one place. Perhaps this thread will continue on just this subject for a while but more likely it will take a turn to another subject and be difficult to find using the site search engine.

I have titled this post "Actual Weight of My TM" to see if that can narrow the search. Another method could be the use of the PM tool.

I'm open to all suggestions.

Thanks,

Jerry

Al-n-Sue

09-11-2009, 03:03 PM

Jerry - very good information. Maybe more folks will contribute actual weights of their trailer so you can add to it.

If you want, add the following comments to my note - weight included two 6v batteries, full propane tanks, but empty water tanks and toilet. Also, I think the dry weight in 2003 was less than it is now. I think I have a brochure from 2003 so I'll check when I am home and if so will post here.

Thanks for putting this together!

Alan

PopBeavers

09-11-2009, 03:28 PM

For my weight (actual 3380 on the axle, tongue/total estimated) I was loaded for bear. I do not normally have as much stuff as I did on that trip. I wanted to simulate the worst case scenario.

I posted the contents around July 2005. As I recall the following stuff was on the floor:

8 camping chairs
3 camping table
a free standing awning
Honda 2000 generator
2 Travasaks
several cases of water and drinks

plus some stuff I can not recall

40 gallon water tank was full
6 gallon water heater was full
toilet was charge
holding tank was empty
both propane cylinders wer full

fridge was full

I ran out of floor space. To make it heavier I would have needed heavier suff, because there was no room for more stuff.

We have been discussing weights off and on since I weiged it. I regret now not taking the bit of extra time to have weighed the tongue.

Bill

09-12-2009, 10:04 AM

Jerry -

You can pull my measured weights from here

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3144

Bill

wbmiller3

09-12-2009, 12:32 PM

ZekenSpider

09-12-2009, 09:08 PM

There is another weight published for each of the newer TMs. Look at the inside of the sink cabinet door. You will find a "wet weight" for your unit.

Mike

Mike;

I know that the sink cabinet door "wet weight" sticker is in my 2010 3326 and it appears to be in the 2008 2720 that "gocnty" has. Is it also in your 2005 3326K?

I'm wondering when TM started placing that sticker inside the sink cabinet door.

There is also a "Tire and Loading Information" sticker on the road side of my TM that says "The weight of cargo should never exceed 971# or 441 kgs. That's the exact same number that is the CCC listed on my sink cabinet door sticker.

As "gocnty" indicated, the sink cabinet door sticker contains:

1) The designed GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating).

2) The UVW (Usable Vehicle Weight) which they get after subtracting from the GVWR all of the optional equipment weights as ordered for that specific TM.

3) Finally after subtracting the propane and drinking water (ie 40# propane for two full tanks and 216# for a full 20 gallon water tank) they list the CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity). That is what's left available for the campers personal stuff, a charged toilet, greywater and maybe full water heater.

I'd like to get as much of that information as I can for the "Actual Weight " project. The GVWR is available from TM but the CCC is variable depending on options ordered and/or added.

Bottom line is, no one should exceed GVWR and I'm betting most everyone is running very close to it.

My GVWR is 5070# and with all my gear I have to run dry (except for propane) to stay at 5050#......and we haven't talked about the GCVWR as yet.

Jerry

commodor47

09-13-2009, 04:53 AM

. . . I'm wondering when TM started placing that sticker inside the sink cabinet door. . .

I'd like to get as much of that information as I can for the "Actual Weight " project. The GVWR is available from TM but the CCC is variable depending on options ordered and/or added.I have a similar tag inside the sink cabinet door of our 2003 2720 SL:

GVWR 4075 #
UVW 2830 #
20 gal fresh water tank 166 #
10 gal propane 45 #
CCC 1034 #

Dick

jcjim4

09-13-2009, 11:53 AM

ZekenSpider

09-13-2009, 11:54 AM

Thanks Dick;

Now we know this sink cabinet door sticker existed at least as far back as 2003.

It appears the UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight) is the factory base dry weight plus any optional equipment weight added at the factory.

In your case, (the 2003 2720SL) the base dry weight must have been 2830#. The current TM web site says the 2010 2720SL base dry weight is 2875#). It appears that your TM was delivered with no options and that the basic 2003 2720SL was 45# lighter than the 2010 2720SL. Do you think that is a valid assumption?

ZekenSpider

09-13-2009, 12:31 PM

just for comparison info: My actual scale wt, w/some normal supplies but no water is 3,420 lbs.
My cabinet door tag shows: GVWR 4217
UVW 3208
26 Gal 216
9.5Gal 40
CCC 753 Lbs.
I still am not sure of the tongue weight.

Thanks Jim;

Is your actual scale weight the entire TM (3 points) or just the Axle Weight?

But now I'm really confused. It appears that your 2008 2720SL has a greater design GVWR (4217#) than the previous years ("commodor47's" 2003 2720SL of 4075#) and the TM web site specifications table (also 4075#).

This implies that your 2008 TM 2720SL can carry 142# more than Dick's 2003 2720SL and more than a new 2010 2720SL.

I'm confused but at a higher level. Hopefully this will lead to some useful conclusions.

Thanks again,

Jerry

ZekenSpider

09-13-2009, 01:12 PM

And yet there is more confusion. I just noticed an earlier post by "gocnty" that they have a 2008 2720 with a sink door sticker stating the GVWR is 4166#. The TM factory Specifications state (by adding two approximate weights) that 4075# is the GVWR for all three of the 2720 models. Now we are not talking about a big difference here (at the most 150# out of 4100# or about 2 to 3 percent) but it shows the need for each owner/operator to pay attention to the specific weight limit placarded on the TM being towed.

I'm beginning to think any one attempting to plan which tow vehicle to use for whichever TM model will need to allow for a 10 to 15 percent margin of safety in the Gross Trailer Weight and the Combined Gross Vehicle Weight calculations.

Just thinking,

Jerry

commodor47

09-13-2009, 02:41 PM

Jerry,

Here is some more information from our unit. We purchased the unit from a private party in February of 2004. The seller kept meticulous records, including all dealer paperwork. (See thumbnail) Note the approximate dry weight is listed as 2590 #. Not sure what all this means. Can we assume the 2590 # is the actual dry weight of our unit? And further, that the UVW of 2830 # from the sticker on the sink cabinet door is the dry weight with factory installed options?

Dick

wbmiller3

09-13-2009, 03:28 PM

IMHO calculations are good but should be backed up by measured data, i.e. to weigh the trailer on some truck scales. It's inconvenient, but not expensive, and then you will know for sure.

mjlaupp

09-13-2009, 05:50 PM

.....I'm wondering when TM started placing that sticker inside the sink cabinet door....

Jerry,

My 2002 2720SL had a larger version of this sticker posted beside the entry door on the inside of the upper shell. I moved it to under the sink since I thought it would be useful information to save.

My 2003 2720SL had the same large sticker posted inside the sink cabinet.

My 2004 3326KD has the smaller sticker inside the sink cabinet.

The sticker was probably posted in every 2002 and earlier TM that left the factory but most likely went the way of the window sticker on a new car. After all, why would you not want such a beautiful piece of artwork right near the entry door? ;)

Mike

jcjim4

09-13-2009, 07:09 PM

Jerry, My actual scale wt of 3420 lbs was a 3 point (entire) TM wt. at a Moving Co. scale. Cost was $6. Don't know what is a normal charge.
More confusion: Above wt was prior to my recent change to 15" wheels&tires.
1:How does the larger tires affect the GVWR Wt?
2:Would I need an adjusted GVWR to arrive at a new CCC wt?
The more I think, the less I know! jim

ZekenSpider

09-13-2009, 08:47 PM

commodor47
Jerry,
Here is some more information from our unit. We purchased the unit from a private party in February of 2004. The seller kept meticulous records, including all dealer paperwork. (See thumbnail) Note the approximate dry weight is listed as 2590 #. Not sure what all this means. Can we assume the 2590 # is the actual dry weight of our unit? And further, that the UVW of 2830 # from the sticker on the sink cabinet door is the dry weight with factory installed options?

Dick

Thanks Dick;
It looks like TM has changed over the years (haven't we all) and the RV industry has modified it's labeling requirements. I think that you can make the assumption that 2590# was the factory advertised dry weight in 2003 for a bare 2720SL.

The UVW is the actual dry weight as delivered to the 2003 owner and it does include the options ordered at that time.

I am unable to zoom in on and read the image that you attached. If possible, please increase the resolution.

wbmiller3 IMHO calculations are good but should be backed up by measured data, i.e. to weigh the trailer on some truck scales. It's inconvenient, but not expensive, and then you will know for sure.

Bill Miller;
You are absolutely right. I have been able to get erery thing weighed for "free" at my local Waste Management dump station. It has surprised me to see how close I am to my limits.

mjlaupp
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZekenSpider View Post
.....I'm wondering when TM started placing that sticker inside the sink cabinet door....
Jerry,

My 2002 2720SL had a larger version of this sticker posted beside the entry door on the inside of the upper shell. I moved it to under the sink since I thought it would be useful information to save.

My 2003 2720SL had the same large sticker posted inside the sink cabinet.

My 2004 3326KD has the smaller sticker inside the sink cabinet.

The sticker was probably posted in every 2002 and earlier TM that left the factory but most likely went the way of the window sticker on a new car. After all, why would you not want such a beautiful piece of artwork right near the entry door?

Mike

Mike;

More good information, Thanks. I think you are right. Do you also have a "Tire and Loading Information" sticker on the road side of your TM that says "The weight of cargo should never exceed XXX?

cjim4 Jerry, My actual scale wt of 3420 lbs was a 3 point (entire) TM wt. at a Moving Co. scale. Cost was $6. Don't know what is a normal charge.
More confusion: Above wt was prior to my recent change to 15" wheels&tires.
1:How does the larger tires affect the GVWR Wt?
2:Would I need an adjusted GVWR to arrive at a new CCC wt?
The more I think, the less I know! jim

Jim;

Your $6.00 weight fee is right in the ball park.

Your specific TM GVWR should not change because that is the designed maximum the vehicle can weigh. Your TM can probably carry more load with out tire failure now because of the new tire load ratings, but the axle or frame may be the limiting factors. I know that TM has not changed their weight "specifications" as of 2010, even though they now deliver everything except the Mini with 15" wheels

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses.

Jerry

commodor47

09-14-2009, 04:34 AM

Jerry,

. . .I am unable to zoom in on and read the image that you attached. If possible, please increase the resolution. . . .

Try opening the thumbnail then click again on the document in the new window. That should bring up yet another window. Pan the document and your cursor should show a "+" then click again, which will expand the document quite a bit. PM me if you are still having a problem getting to a larger view.

Dick

Bill

09-14-2009, 08:16 AM

It is tempting to think that putting better/heavier tires on the TM would increase the allowable GVW or the CCC. Not so, unfortunately, since the limit on TM weight is not imposed by the tires, but by the 3500-pound-rated axle. It is true that we have seen a lot of tire failures, and no axle failures. Though I have no special knowledge, I attribute this to the fact that tires get beaten up on the road (road debris, potholes, and especially underinflation), none of which affects the axle. Changing to heftier tires makes them more resistant to their particular problems, but does not increase the overall rating for the trailer.

By the way - and again I have no special knowledge - I suspect that TM arrives at the GVW rating (about 4000-4100 pounds) by starting with the 3500-pound rating of the axle, and backing it out by 14%-15%, the assumed amount of the total weight that is carried by the hitch. In other words, 4050 pounds total weight, less 14% on the hitch, leaves about 3500 pounds on the wheels and axle.

The exact calculation depends on whether or not you include the weight of the axle and tires themselves in the 3500-pound axle rating, and whether you assume that a weight-distributing hitch is being used. These assumptions change the final answer, but only slightly, and this is not an exact science.

Bill

ZekenSpider

09-14-2009, 09:01 AM

Jerry,

Try opening the thumbnail then click again on the document in the new window. That should bring up yet another window. Pan the document and your cursor should show a "+" then click again, which will expand the document quite a bit. PM me if you are still having a problem getting to a larger view.

Dick

Dick;

Wow! Do I feel silly. Thanks for another of life's simple lessons.

By the way, do you also have a "Tire and Loading Information" sticker on the road side of your TM that says "The weight of cargo should never exceed 1034#"(the same number as your CCC)?

Jerry

gocntry

09-14-2009, 12:26 PM

Here's The 3 Stickers I Have On My Trailmanor.

And 1 Thing Not To Forget..... When I Picked Up My Tm (From Dealer) They Showed Me Where They Had Just Installed A New Battery For Me. So That Might Suggest That No Battery Is Installed By Trailmanor And Is Not Counted For In The Weights On The Sticker. So You Would Have To Deduct The Weight Of 1 Or 2 Batteries Off Your GWVR Sticker On The Trailer.

Of Notice Is Sticker #2 Says GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating??) Is 3640# So I Have A 3500Lb Axle That Can Carry 3650# ??

And In The Other Sticker Is Does Show 46 Gallons Of Water So A Full Water Heater Is Counted, But If You Precharge The Toilet You Would Have To Add That Water Weight Too.

Hmmm I Wonder If I Have Any Weight Capacity Left For Food?? :D

commodor47

09-14-2009, 01:43 PM

. . . By the way, do you also have a "Tire and Loading Information" sticker on the road side of your TM that says "The weight of cargo should never exceed 1034#"(the same number as your CCC)? . . .

Jerry,

No, I do not have any other stickers - just the one inside the sink cabinet door and the sliver colored label, outside, on the street side of the upper shell. And that label is nearly illegible.

Dick

Wavery

09-14-2009, 03:11 PM

I've attached my truck weight scale results from the only time I actually weighed the rig. There is one reading for the truck only and one for both. The TM was dry and unloaded except for propane.

W/o the trailer the axle weights were 2980/2960.
With the trailer, the axle weights were 2820/3080/2760.

I have a Reese WDH.

WOW!!! you travel light.

Those weights are confusing.

I can see where your frt Axle weight went down by 160# with the trailer attached. Your rear axle increased by only 80# :confused:

Your TV weighed 5940# before hitching up the TM. It weighed 5900# after hooking up the TM.

Now conventional wisdom and a little math, would say OK, if the trailer tongue weight was 400# that would mean that 440# was transferred to the TM axle (because of the WDH)......:rolleyes: That would also mean that your TM is only 2720# fully loaded.

Maybe it's just me but I think I would do 2 of 3 things........... 1. Get rid of the WDH if you can or 2. Change the way that it is adjusted. 3. Find a different scales. Something just doesn't look right.:cool:

wbmiller3

09-14-2009, 03:45 PM

Wavery

09-14-2009, 04:22 PM

I agree with the 2720 total weight number (dry+propane). I was on the way to storage so the trailer had bedding, pots-n-pans, etc in it but no consumables.

I was also surprised that the total truck weight dropped. However, the joker here is that I did the weighings one day apart...so there is one more variable...the weight of fuel in the truck. I didn't record the gauge readings so I have no idea what that weight was on either day.

I learned that the TM was really close to its published weight and way, way under what my shiny new truck could handle. This was in 2003 and I've been happy with the setup I have in the ensuing years. There's always room for improvement, of course.

The concerning part is that over 400# is being transferred to the TM axle (according to those figures) and weight is being subtracted from the front axle of the TV.

The whole idea of a WDH is to transfer the trailer tongue weight from the rear axle of the TV to the front axle and the trailer axle (fairly evenly). Evidently, your WDH is transferring ALL of your tongue weight to the trailer axle..........I don't even know how that is even possible :confused:.

My gut feeling is that someone may have mixed up some numbers on that 2nd certificate.

Gasoline only weighs about 6# per gallon. Could you have been out of the vehicle the 1st time and in the vehicle the 2nd time????? That might make more sense of this.

commodor47

09-14-2009, 05:25 PM

Wavery

09-14-2009, 06:47 PM

In the interest of collecting some fairly accurate weight information, consider this option: not everyone has easy access to scales, but we all have a bathroom scale. Measure the tongue weight of your TM empty and assume that to be 15% of the TM weight. A simple calculation will give you the projected TM weight. Next load the TM with everything you would normally bring for a camping trip. Again check the tongue weight using the bathroom scale and assume that to be 15% of the total weight.

Your thoughts?

http://www.curtmfg.com/index.cfm?event=pageview&contentpieceid=1347

http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/tongueweight.html

Dick

IMHO.......a thread like this would be better served by using actual measurements. Guesstimates devalue the purpose of the thread (unless it is stated as such) IMO. It's sorta like saying, "The TM 2720 is comparable to a 27' travel trailer". It's not a true statement in any way shape or form. What value is that??????

If I don't have real data for a certain part, I just won't post it. IMO posting a guess is worse than no actual data at all.

I have not posted my weight because I lost my certificate from a year ago and I purchased a different vehicle and I've done several mods since my last measurement.

BTW........I think that it would be valuable information for an owner to weigh the vehicle with and without the WDH.

OH YA!!!! Bill..........you can tow a house with that Expedition. Weight of any TM is the least of your concerns. I'm curious why you feel the need for a WDH????? Weren't you having trailer tire issues?? That may be part of the reason.

wbmiller3

09-14-2009, 07:17 PM

Wavery

09-14-2009, 08:10 PM

You've definitely made me curious about the WDH's effect. I will have to revisit the scales with and without the spring bars installed.

I just kept the WDH because it was on the previous vehicle. Not a good reason, really.

Here is the problem, as I understand it (which could be wrong). The WDH works by building a spring loaded "Bridge" (so to speak) between the trailer axle and the front wheels of the TV.......This is done to remove as much weight as possible from the trailer tongue and distributing it to the front wheels of the TV to improve braking and steering ability. The bi-product of all this is that some of the weight is also transferred to the other end of the "Bridge"....the trailer axle...... On a TV that is about the same weight as the trailer (like my old S10...3500#) this makes sense and the burden on the trailer axle not extreme. However, when the TV is much heavier than the trailer (like my Silverado or your Expedition 6000#), this could be a real problem. The weight transfer from the TV could be too extreme for the trailer suspension and tires (especially when the max weight rating is close). This would be especially true on an uneven highway where the rear of the TV is being supported by the WDH.

I don't know this for a fact but just looking at the system it makes sense to me. If I'm wrong, I would like someone to explain it so that it makes sense.

PopBeavers

09-14-2009, 10:13 PM

You've definitely made me curious about the WDH's effect. I will have to revisit the scales with and without the spring bars installed.

I just kept the WDH because it was on the previous vehicle. Not a good reason, really.

I'm not sure how big your Expedition is compared to my 1500HD, but I was advised by the factory that I did not need a WDH with my truck, essentially a downsized 3/4 ton truck.

I towed that way for several years. But after putting 2 motorcycles in the bed of the truck I finally had enough sag that I could no longer remove the wheel on the TM tongue. Without the motorcycles the sag was about 5/8 inch.

Switching from the 1500HD to the 2500HD long bed I no longer have much sag and the rear of the truck is an inch higher to start with, so the TM front wheel is no longer a problem, unless I switch to a different bar with more drop in it. Before I was slightly low. Now I am slightly high. They just don't seem to sell bars in half inch increments.

PopBeavers

09-14-2009, 10:23 PM

IMHO.......a thread like this would be better served by using actual measurements. Guesstimates devalue the purpose of the thread (unless it is stated as such) IMO. It's sorta like saying, "The TM 2720 is comparable to a 27' travel trailer". It's not a true statement in any way shape or form. What value is that??????

If I don't have real data for a certain part, I just won't post it. IMO posting a guess is worse than no actual data at all.

I have not posted my weight because I lost my certificate from a year ago and I purchased a different vehicle and I've done several mods since my last measurement.

BTW........I think that it would be valuable information for an owner to weigh the vehicle with and without the WDH.

OH YA!!!! Bill..........you can tow a house with that Expedition. Weight of any TM is the least of your concerns. I'm curious why you feel the need for a WDH????? Weren't you having trailer tire issues?? That may be part of the reason.

I somewhat disagree with you. I have posted, on several occasions, that my TM axle weight is 3,380 the one time I weighed it, and a summary of the contents of the TM. THAT is actual data.

I also posted that the total wight would be ABOUT 4,100 pounds. The point I was trying to make is some new people are looking for total weights to see if they could tow it. At the time I have posted these we did not yet, and still barely do, have a thread posting actual measured total weights.

Until we have total true weights for all models of interest, I believe that an estimated total weight is better for a person new to towing than for me to just post the axle weight of 3,380 and then they scratch their heads trying to make their own estimate of the total weight. I belive that many of us that have been towing and reading RV forums for several years are better at estimating that total weight than someone considering their first trailer and the salesman says of course you can tow it. If they are lucky enough to find us I hope they leave believing that a fully loaded TM 2720 can actually weigh a bit over 4,000 pounds. The TM web site does not quite make that obvious.

Real Soon Now (RSN) we will have a document around here showing actual measured weights for (hopefully) all models. So, from about now and into the future, then the value of an estimated weight is diminished. But, when I originally posted my estimate in July 2005, that was the best that most any of us were doing.

I don't recall there being a whole lot of actual total weights being posted between 2005 and a few weeks ago.

Wavery

09-14-2009, 10:32 PM

I somewhat disagree with you. I have posted, on several occasions, that my TM axle weight is 3,380 the one time I weighed it, and a summary of the contents of the TM. THAT is actual data.

I also posted that the total wight would be ABOUT 4,100 pounds. The point I was trying to make is some new people are looking for total weights to see if they could tow it. At the time I have posted these we did not yet, and still barely do, have a thread posting actual measured total weights.

Until we have total true weights for all models of interest, I believe that an estimated total weight is better for a person new to towing than for me to just post the axle weight of 3,380 and then they scratch their heads trying to make their own estimate of the total weight. I belive that many of us that have been towing and reading RV forums for several years are better at estimating that total weight than someone considering their first trailer and the salesman says of course you can tow it. If they are lucky enough to find us I hope they leave believing that a fully loaded TM 2720 can actually weigh a bit over 4,000 pounds. The TM web site does not quite make that obvious.

Real Soon Now (RSN) we will have a document around here showing actual measured weights for (hopefully) all models. So, from about now and into the future, then the value of an estimated weight is diminished. But, when I originally posted my estimate in July 2005, that was the best that most any of us were doing.

I don't recall there being a whole lot of actual total weights being posted between 2005 and a few weeks ago.

Good point......

Maybe we should have 2 lists........one list for actual scale weights and one list for weight estimates. I can see how they may be helpful to newbees....

ZekenSpider

09-15-2009, 03:50 AM

There is so much good discussion and my mind is going a mile a minute.

First, hopefully to add clarity, I am attaching two documents.

The first one is a set of definitions used by the RVIA (Recreational Vehicle Industry Association) and part of the TM current standards. The various placards posted on our TM's come from these standards.

The second, to help understand the WDH interaction between the TV and the TM, is a really good tutorial on the subject by Ron Gratz.

Now to some comments;

From "gocntry"
Here's The 3 Stickers I Have On My Trailmanor.

And 1 Thing Not To Forget..... When I Picked Up My Tm (From Dealer) They Showed Me Where They Had Just Installed A New Battery For Me. So That Might Suggest That No Battery Is Installed By Trailmanor And Is Not Counted For In The Weights On The Sticker. So You Would Have To Deduct The Weight Of 1 Or 2 Batteries Off Your GWVR Sticker On The Trailer.

Of Notice Is Sticker #2 Says GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating??) Is 3640# So I Have A 3500Lb Axle That Can Carry 3650# ??

And In The Other Sticker Is Does Show 46 Gallons Of Water So A Full Water Heater Is Counted, But If You Precharge The Toilet You Would Have To Add That Water Weight Too.

Hmmm I Wonder If I Have Any Weight Capacity Left For Food??

I think that TM includes the battery in UVW number as well as the dealer installed options. As shown on your image #3, take the UVW, add the propane weight, the water in the full water tank and the water in the water heater. Subtract that total from the GVWR to get the things you can carry (CCC). It says that you can carry 649#. A pre-charged toilet would reduce that to about 625#. That is still a lot of stuff (I weighed all of the stuff that I moved into my 3326 and it came to 278#, leaving over 300# for food) but it clearly shows that you are probably near your max limit (GVWR) when you are towing (as am I).

The GVAW number of 3640# on your placard is indeed greater than the 3500# Axle rating but by less than 5%. I'm guessing that TM got a waver from Dexter Axle. I wonder if all the 2720's have that GVAW? Hey! I just noticed that my 2010 TM 3326 has a Front and Rear GAWR of 3640#. That appears to be a TM/Dexter approved design load limit.

Bottom line, the GVWR, UVW and CCC numbers appear to be what I need to get so I can include them with the actual scale readings.

commodor47 says;
Jerry,

No, I do not have any other stickers - just the one inside the sink cabinet door and the sliver colored label, outside, on the street side of the upper shell. And that label is nearly illegible.

Dick

With what you told me already, I have what I need. Maybe a recent TM and TV weight if possible. I suspect the faded silver sticker is like the 1st image on the "gocntry" post. I think TM would print you another one if you sent them your Serial Number. They just sent me a new set of the outdoor stickers.

Discussions by "harveyrv" and "wbmiller3"
on WDH and actual weight.

Perhaps the attached WDH document will help clarify this complex subject. I too was puzzled by the scale readings that wbmiller3 got. His front TV axle weight and his TM axle weight both should have gone up with the WDH properly tensioned. Confusing? I agree, we need more actual weights but we really have to be careful how the measurements are taken. Still thinking about this one.

The newbees, (I should say us newbees) could use a quick reference list by TM model #'s of Real World trailer weight and tongue weight (I think it's likely that GVWR and, lets say, 0.12 x GVWR are best for planning). This gives them reasonable values to be able to determine if the TV they have will work for the TM model they are thinking about. It is better to use GVWR than the sales specification "base or dry weights".

As we can see, so far, a lot of TM users are within a few hundred pounds of the GVWR. Many have to off load water until they get parked. The actual weight information is needed to substantiate this assertion

Thanks again for good points of information and spirited discussion.

Jerry

Bill

09-15-2009, 07:27 AM

HarveyRV posted The whole idea of a WDH is to transfer the trailer tongue weight from the rear axle of the TV to the front axle and the trailer axle (fairly evenly).
and
This is done to remove as much weight as possible from the trailer tongue and distributing it to the front wheels of the TV to improve braking and steering ability.

Just for the sake of clarity, let's be sure we all realize that the purpose of a WDH is to transfer some of the tongue weight from the tow vehicle's rear axle to the front axle and trailer axle - but by no means all of it.

The explanations I have read suggest that in an ideal world, the WDH would move 1/3 of the tongue weight to the front axle, and another 1/3 to the trailer axle, leaving 1/3 on the tow vehicle rear axle. In the real world, I sincerely doubt that the distribution is as even, or as complete, as that. Perhaps some of the upcoming measurements will clarify that.

Adding equal weights to the front and rear axle keeps the tow vehicle level, which is what you want. With no weight distribution, the front of the tow vehicle would pitch up. But with too much weight distribution, the front of the tow vehicle would pitch down. Neither is a good thing.

Bill

Wavery

09-15-2009, 06:32 PM

HarveyRV posted
and

Just for the sake of clarity, let's be sure we all realize that the purpose of a WDH is to transfer some of the tongue weight from the tow vehicle's rear axle to the front axle and trailer axle - but by no means all of it.

The explanations I have read suggest that in an ideal world, the WDH would move 1/3 of the tongue weight to the front axle, and another 1/3 to the trailer axle, leaving 1/3 on the tow vehicle rear axle. In the real world, I sincerely doubt that the distribution is as even, or as complete, as that. Perhaps some of the upcoming measurements will clarify that.

Adding equal weights to the front and rear axle keeps the tow vehicle level, which is what you want. With no weight distribution, the front of the tow vehicle would pitch up. But with too much weight distribution, the front of the tow vehicle would pitch down. Neither is a good thing.

Bill

Thanks for the clarification on that. That's what I meant, I just didn't state it correctly.

Here is a new wrinkle..........

For those of us that put a lot of weight in the back of our trucks or SUVs, part of that weight is also distributed to the trailer axle and front TV axle, through the WDH.

I just wonder if that may be part of the reason that we see so many blow-outs on the TM :confused:.

I towed the TM 200 miles with my new truck using the WDH a couple weeks ago. This weekend, we will be towing the TM without the WDH but with our new air-bags (for rear sag support).

commodor47

09-16-2009, 07:08 AM

Jerry,

Here is an interesting site with TM specifications from earlier models. This site has been referenced here in the past.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/trailmanor.com

Click on November 27, 2001 and November 21, 2002; scroll down to and click on "Models" then click on "TM Specifications". Note how the approximate dry weight has changed - from then to now.

Dick

lnussbau

09-17-2009, 06:04 AM

ZekenSpider

09-18-2009, 12:28 PM

ZekenSpider

09-18-2009, 01:12 PM

My 2006 2720SL also has such a sticker:

Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC)
GVWR - ............................4217
MINUS UVW - ....................3165 (with factory options)
MINUS Fresh Water, 26 gals - 216
MINUS Propane - ...................40
CCC for this trailer -...............796

It's actually a little less than this, since the dealer installed an additional battery and a swing hitch. From the factory I had A/C and an awning, along with the cabinet over the sink, TV antenna, and perhaps some other options I can't recall. So it's around 3200 lbs prior to putting clothes, food, bedding, toiletries, etc. in.

So although I've not actually weighed it, it's likely 4,000 lbs or a tad over when I'm enroute.

Larry; Thanks for your input.

Here's a new wrinkle that I'm working on with Dexter Axle and hope to include in the Actual Weight table. Dexter insists that a 3,500# axle can never have a rating over 3,500#. My 2010 3326 has two axles, each one rated at 3,640# and "gocntry" has 2008 2720 with one axle rated at 3,640#.

These two TM GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) stickers have raised the question that some of the (maybe recent) TM's may have 4,400# axles.

Is your GAWR sticker still legible? If so, what does it say?

Dexter Axle is waiting for me to submit my axle serial numbers to verify the type that I have. I'm wondering when and if TM upsized the axle design. The 3,500# axle design can range from 2,300# to 3,500# GAWR, depending on hubs, wheels, tires, brakes and etc., but never exceed it. The next size up from Dexter is a 4,400# design.

Thanks for you help,

Jerry

gocntry

09-18-2009, 01:16 PM

Dexter Axle is waiting for me to submit my axle serial numbers to verify the type that I have.

Wish I Could Help You There But My Axle Sticker Was Painted Over, And Being A Vinyl Sticker Is Totally Not Legible.

Does Dexter Stamp A Serial # Or Anything Into The Axle Tube?? If So I Can Climb Back Under There And Look Again.

gocntry

09-18-2009, 01:26 PM

I think that TM includes the battery in UVW number as well as the dealer installed options.

If You Look At Sticker #3 That I Posted At The Bottom It Says "Dealer Installed Equipment Will Reduce CCC".

I Would Believe Since It Seems That The Batteries Are Installed By The Dealers, You Would Need To Deduct The Weight Of The Battery Or Batteries From Your Capacity.

Plus It Would Make The Tongue Weight Higher Than Advertised On The Trailmanor Website.

ZekenSpider

09-18-2009, 01:34 PM

Wish I Could Help You There But My Axle Sticker Was Painted Over, And Being A Vinyl Sticker Is Totally Not Legible.

Does Dexter Stamp A Serial # Or Anything Into The Axle Tube?? If So I Can Climb Back Under There And Look Again.

Dexter says that since April 2001 there is a nine digit S/N on the rear side of the axle tube about 18" from the curb side under the words"DEXTER AXLE". This number will also allow you to identify the replacement parts needed for your brakes and bearings (unless someone has modified the hubs, drums, wheels and etc.).

If you want to do it, I think that TM can send you new stickers if you supply your TM S/N.

Jerry

ZekenSpider

09-18-2009, 02:38 PM

If You Look At Sticker #3 That I Posted At The Bottom It Says "Dealer Installed Equipment Will Reduce CCC".

I Would Believe Since It Seems That The Batteries Are Installed By The Dealers, You Would Need To Deduct The Weight Of The Battery Or Batteries From Your Capacity.

Plus It Would Make The Tongue Weight Higher Than Advertised On The Trailmanor Website.

I sure can not disagree with your logic.....and I have no answer from the local TM rep as yet. My local RV dealer says the battery is "dealer installed" and therefore, should be subtracted from the CCC. On a motorized RV this makes little difference, but on a TM it makes a big difference.

Although it makes little difference to the conclusion of this post, I noticed that I did not say what I meant in the quote you cited:
I think that TM includes the battery in UVW number as well as the dealer installed options.

I meant to say: I think that TM includes the battery in UVW number as well as the factory installed options.

This is another reason to believe that many of us are likely to be running close to or above our TM GVWR and maybe above our TV hitch Tongue Weight Rating.

Thanks for your excellent input,

Jerry

gocntry

09-19-2009, 08:38 AM

My local RV dealer says the battery is "dealer installed" and therefore, should be subtracted from the CCC. On a motorized RV this makes little difference, but on a TM it makes a big difference.

This is another reason to believe that many of us are likely to be running close to or above our TM GVWR and maybe above our TV hitch Tongue Weight Rating.

I'm Starting To See All The Fine Prints The Problem....

According To The Trailmanor Website A 2720 Has An Approximate Load Capacity Of 1333 Lbs.

Now Subtract The Factory Options On Mine, Fill The Water Tank & Water Heater & Fill The Propane Tanks I'm Down 684 Lbs To A Capacity Of 649 Lbs.

Now Before I Leave On A Trip I Have 2 Group 24 Batteries And I Pre-Charged My Toilet W/ 3 Gallons Of Water I Lost Another Approximate 165 Lbs

Now My Real Load Capacity Is 484 Lbs Not The Estimated 1333 Lbs As Stated On The Web Site.

I Can See Where Overloading A Tm Can Happen Without Realizing It.

ZekenSpider

09-19-2009, 03:34 PM

The attached .pdf Weight Table is getting too busy, but here it is.

Please comment and forgive me if I have forgotten to add someone's contribution.

Opps! I forgot "wbmiller3". His 2001 2319 has an axle weight of 2,760# when weighed while attached to his TV with a WDH. The TM was empty, unloaded except for LP. I'll republish the .pdf Weight Table tomorrow.

There will be more to come on the Axle ratings soon.

Regards,

Jerry

ZekenSpider

09-19-2009, 04:01 PM

Now My Real Load Capacity Is 484 Lbs Not The Estimated 1333 Lbs As Stated On The Web Site.

I Can See Where Overloading A Tm Can Happen Without Realizing It.

You are absolutely right. Fortunately (I suppose) there is a "safety factor" built into the design but I suspect it is easy to overload the weakest link in the load carrying equipment (maybe the tires).

I think Wayne at "harveyrv" may be onto something with his statement regarding the WDH contributing to tire problems.

harveyrv 9/15/09 ... Here is a new wrinkle..........

For those of us that put a lot of weight in the back of our trucks or SUVs, part of that weight is also distributed to the trailer axle and front TV axle, through the WDH.

I just wonder if that may be part of the reason that we see so many blow-outs on the TM .

I am going to do the Ron Gratz WDH load calculation for my rig next week after I take all of the wheelbase and hitch distance measurements. It will be fun (kind of a nerdy fun, I suppose) to see what the effect of a load increase in the back of my TV has on my TM axle.

Later,

Jerry

PopBeavers

09-19-2009, 04:12 PM

PopBeavers

09-19-2009, 07:03 PM

I can confirm the acuracy on the data form my TM. But, I see that you are also, apparently, tabulating options.

I have:
roof a/c
awning
sink hanging cabinet (old taller style)
swing hitch
40 gallon water tank
microwave box with drawer

Not in your options list, but I have the factory rear hitch receiver

I have dual group 24 wet batteries on the tongue.

AM/FM/CD added by me, not that it weighs much.

I was going to send a PM to Jerry, but I could not do so. I was trying not to clutter up this thread with these details.

ZekenSpider

09-19-2009, 07:55 PM

I can confirm the accuracy on the data form for my TM. But, I see that you are also, apparently, tabulating options.

I have:
roof a/c
awning
sink hanging cabinet (old taller style)
swing hitch
40 gallon water tank
microwave box with drawer

Not in your options list, but I have the factory rear hitch receiver

I have dual group 24 wet batteries on the tongue.

AM/FM/CD added by me, not that it weighs much.

I was going to send a PM to Jerry, but I could not do so. I was trying not to clutter up this thread with these details.

I think I've enabled PM. If not, let me know if I need to do something.

You are sure right about the effect of the WDH. It's only a good idea if you need to put some extra weight on the front axle of your TV (and 120# or so is pretty small).

Thanks for the added option information. The only reason for including the options is to show how they subtract from the CCC. I will add your option info to the Weight Table for the next revision.

Do you have a CCC calculation placard on your TM anywhere?

The placard shows how much we give up in cargo capacity when we add the bells & whistles. It can show the newbees that they probably need a bigger TV than initially planned.

Regards,

Jerry

PopBeavers

09-19-2009, 09:01 PM

I know that there is a sticker in the cabinet under the sink. The TM is in the garage, but will be out for the local rally in Petaluma the first weekend of October. I'll pull that info out then.

Last year we had 31 TMs at the rally. The last count I heard for the year was 23. That would be a good time to go around chatting with people and getting some of their weight data.

PopBeavers

09-19-2009, 09:03 PM

ZekenSpider

09-19-2009, 10:04 PM

Jerry,

I still can not send you a private message. I suspect you are:

1. trial member, but it does not say that.
2. not paid up
3. you have not enabled private messages, or you did and it did not get saved.

My bad. I had everything checked and had been doing PM with the administrators ...but.. I should not have checked: "Receive Private Messages only from Contacts and Moderators".

That's fixed, so it should work now.

Thanks,

mjlaupp

09-20-2009, 02:54 PM

CCC computation sticker for my 2004 3326:

GVWR 4916#
UVW 3812#
20 gal water 166#
10 gal LP gas 45#
CCC 893#

I have never weighed any of my TMs.

Mike

ZekenSpider

09-20-2009, 05:00 PM

CCC computation sticker for my 2004 3326:
Mike

Mike;

Thanks for the information:

I have entered your CCC sticker data in the table. It is the second 3326K that we have to compare. I'm pretty sure your model has (had) 14" wheels and therefore, has a lower GVWR.

Do you know what options were shipped on your TM that increased the UVW to 3812# from the 2004 base weight of 3,315#(early to fall 2004) or 3,520#(fall of 2004 and later)?.......Many Thanks to "commodor47" for the link to the archives at:
<http://web.archive.org/web/*/trailmanor.com>

Also, do you have a Gross Vehicle Axle Rating (GVAR) sticker for the TM somewhere? Mine is street side on the lower rear of the front roof.

Interesting to compare the 2010 and 2004 stickers:

2004 3326K
GVWR 4916#
UVW 3812#
20 gal water 166#
10 gal LP gas 45#
CCC 893#

2010 3326K
GVWR 5070#
UVW 3843#
26 gal water 216# (includes 20 gl. tnk. + 6 gl. water heater)
9.5 gal LP gas 40# (derates LP from 5 gal. to 4.75 per DOT)
CCC 971#

I'm pretty sure this is the result of the wheel change, but there may have been some other change also. Even if we assume that TM stayed with the Dexter 3,500# axle, two of them would have given a 7,000# GVWR.

It's yet to be determined.

Regards,

Jerry

Wavery

09-20-2009, 09:51 PM

If I were to install a WD hitch, and it were to transfer more than 120 pounds to the TM axle, then I would be over 3,500 pounds.

In my case, a WD hitch is not a good idea. My limiting factor is the TM axle, not the truck axles.

We each have a different set of limits that seem to get in the way.

I agree. We went this weekend without the WDH. I noticed that the vehicle did not feel as, "Solid" in that you could really feel that you were towing a trailer and the trailer was effecting the ride of the TV more.

However, what that tells me is that when I go over a bump, that shock is no longer be distributed over the 3 axles at the same time. Each axle is effected separately. In my case, this is a good thing because my truck has a lot of weight in the rear. With the WDH, some of that weight it being transfered to the TM axle, especially when going over uneven roads.

I would much rather suffer a little less comfortable ride than a blown out tire any day.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/TowRig2.jpg

lnussbau

09-21-2009, 08:00 AM

Larry; Thanks for your input.

...
Is your GAWR sticker still legible? If so, what does it say?

...

Jerry

Jerry,
Here is my street side label:

GVWR: ..........4217 -- Feb 2006
Front GAWR: ..3640 -- ST215/75R14C
Cold Pressure: -- 50 lbs.

ZekenSpider

09-21-2009, 08:13 PM

Thanks to a PM from Wayne at "popbeavers" to wit:

"I believe the topic of overloading the TM axle has come up before, and the answer was that there is some debate if the weight of the axle, brakes and wheels is part of that limit. Some people think it means the limit of how much weight the suspension is carrying, which would certainly exclude those items."

I now think the TM factory GAWR of 3,640# is a correct value for a 3,500# axle (3,640# - 140# worth of drums, wheels, tires, lug nuts and stems = 3,500#). These parts are all part of the TM weight but they are equipment not carried by the axle. They show up when you weigh the TM but since that equipment carries the axle, it is not part of the load carried by the axle.

I have yet to verify this with the factory, but what Wayne has said makes good sense.

I have verified that the unit serial numbers on my 2010 3326 were 3,500# axles when shipped from Dexter Axle.

Jerry

mjlaupp

09-22-2009, 10:40 AM

Jerry,

The GVAR sticker for my 2004 3326KD is:
GVWR 4916#
Front 3500#, 14 inch @ 50 psi.
Rear (no data).

Factory Options:
15,000 btu A/C (not low profile)
Electric tongue jack
Awning
Hanging cabinet
Amplified VHF/UHF TV antenna
Rear bike receiver
Magic Chef range (appears to be heavier than the Atwood)

It also has dual T105 batteries. I don't know if these were factory, dealer or owner installed. This year model has oak cabinets which may add some weight over what is installed now. Standard carpet interior.

Mike

ZekenSpider

09-28-2009, 08:49 PM

This attachment includes all of the information that I have so far. I will be at the Petaluma Rally and hope to gather more info there.

I will also be working on a simplified document. I like Bill's idea of splitting it into two pages.

Later,

Jerry

Wavery

10-10-2009, 04:42 PM

We just got back from our vacation. We stopped at a CAT scale and had the rig weighed. When we got home, I unhooked the trailer and weighed the tongue weight. Here's our results:

Front axle..........................3080#
Rear axle (incl tongue wt.)....3920#
Trailer Axle.........................3440#
Total rig...........................10,440#
Trailer tongue weight..............490#

Total trailer weight...............3930# Fully loaded (no water, 2-full propane tanks, 2-29 series Btrys))

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/2009Vacation282.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/2009Vacation277.jpg
Scale weight x2= tongue wt (minus 14# 7' long 2x12)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/wkavery/2009Vacation278.jpg

dw8ite

10-13-2009, 11:59 PM

Weights shown are for loaded and ready to travel.
2006 Toyota Sienna Mini Van
2720-SL
Swing Tongue
15,000 btu A/C w Htr. (low profile)
Manual tongue jack
Awning
Hanging cabinet over sink
Amplified VHF/UHF TV antenna
14" Tires with Mounted Spare & unmounted spare w/ tube
Food Shelving Mod.
HDTV & Mount
WDH: Equalizer
@ folding chairs
1 Al. Folding Table
Cabinets/ Drawers/Wardrobe packed to 60% Capacity
No fresh water
Toilet charged
TV loaded with additional 300# of gear.

Certified Weight of above load taken at RAC Materials, LLC in Tomball, TX.
All weights are with TV and TM Connected:

TV Front Axle = 2420#
TV both Axles = 5380#
TV Back Axle & TM Axle = 6080#
TM Axle only = 3260#

Some day I want to get the weights on each side of the TM. I've had two blowouts and both were on the port side. I suspect the port side carries a heavier load. Consider the asymetrical weight that can be on the port side; 20 gal of fresh water, 6 gal of black water, six gal of hot water, Battery, Air Compressor, and I think the equipment weight of the Refrig, Water Heater, Toilet and Tub will outweigh the closet, cabinets and stove/oven.

Hope this info helps.

Wavery

10-14-2009, 12:27 AM

Weights shown are for loaded and ready to travel.
2006 Toyota Sienna Mini Van
2720-SL

TV Front Axle = 2420#
TV both Axles = 5380#
TV Back Axle & TM Axle = 6080#
TM Axle only = 3260#

Did you happen to get your tongue weight?

dw8ite

10-14-2009, 12:36 AM

Wavery

10-14-2009, 01:14 AM

Wayne - No I didn't get it at the time I did the other weights. I can weigh the tongue now and interpolate what it was with the TM loaded as before. Since the approximate wt is somewhere around 300-400# I should be able to get within 25#. I'll add that in tomorrow.

I was actually shocked that my tongue wt was close to 500#. I was VERY careful with my measurements and double checked everything several times (including calibrating the scale).

mtnguy

10-14-2009, 06:20 AM

Some day I want to get the weights on each side of the TM. I've had two blowouts and both were on the port side. I suspect the port side carries a heavier load. Consider the asymetrical weight that can be on the port side; 20 gal of fresh water, 6 gal of black water, six gal of hot water, Battery, Air Compressor, and I think the equipment weight of the Refrig, Water Heater, Toilet and Tub will outweigh the closet, cabinets and stove/oven.

I weighed my 2720 from side to side. With no water in the fresh or gray tank, and the toilet empty, the starboard side was heavier by 40 lbs. I too thought that the port side would be heavier with all those items that you mentioned. But apparently the wood in all of those cabinets on the starboard side add up. The battery on the 2720SL is on the port side instead of on the tongue, which would add to the weight there on those models.

My weights with the WDH engaged were 1500 for the port side, and 1540 for starboard. When I added about 29 gallons of water to the TM (20 fresh, 6 hot water, 3 in the toilet) than that side should increase to about 1740 lbs.....close to the rated capacity of the 14" Marathons. Seems like a good reason that the port side tires would be the 1st to blow.

PopBeavers

10-14-2009, 12:45 PM

Interesting idea about which side is heavier. I would expect my street side to be heavier, because I have the 40 gallon water tank and it is always full when I leave the house.

My one tire failure was on the curbside, opposite the heavy water.

My batteries are centered on the tongue.

ZekenSpider

10-14-2009, 05:13 PM

Weights shown are for loaded and ready to travel.
2006 Toyota Sienna Mini Van
2720-SL

Swing Tongue
15,000 btu A/C w Htr. (low profile)
Manual tongue jack
Awning
Hanging cabinet over sink
Amplified VHF/UHF TV antenna
14" Tires with Mounted Spare & unmounted spare w/ tube
Food Shelving Mod.
HDTV & Mount
WDH: Equalizer
@ folding chairs
1 Al. Folding Table
Cabinets/ Drawers/Wardrobe packed to 60% Capacity
No fresh water
Toilet charged
TV loaded with additional 300# of gear.

Certified Weight of above load taken at RAC Materials, LLC in Tomball, TX.
All weights are with TV and TM Connected:

TV Front Axle = 2420#
TV both Axles = 5380#
TV Back Axle & TM Axle = 6080#
TM Axle only = 3260#

Hope this info helps.

Don;

Can you supply the information (if it is still in your TM) from the "as shipped" sticker inside the kitchen or sink cabinet door? It is sometimes called the CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) calculation sticker. It should state something like:

GVWR: the TM Gross Vehicle Weight Rating as designed
less UVW: the TM Unloaded Vehicle Weight as shipped with options
less 26 gal water: 216#
less 10 gal LP gas: 45#
equals CCC: the Cargo Carrying Capacity as calculated

I would like to add your TM data to the information I have been collecting for the TM actual weight data summary, if it is OK with you. Also, were most of the options you listed above installed on the TM when you bought it? Were they factory installed?

Sometimes the CCC is also listed on a sticker on the street side near the Gross Axle Weight sticker.

Thanks,

Jerry

dw8ite

10-14-2009, 10:43 PM

Don;

Can you supply the information (if it is still in your TM) from the "as shipped" sticker inside the kitchen or sink cabinet door?...

...Also, were most of the options you listed above installed on the TM when you bought it? Were they factory installed?

Thanks,

Jerry

Jerry,
This going to be a great database when you finish it. My weights on the 'as-shipped' sticker are as follows:

GVRW:............ 4217#
UVW:.............. 3213#
26 Gal. H2O:..... 216#
LP Gas 9.5 Gal.:...40#
CCC:................ 748#

You asked about my options. The following options from my list were not factory installed. These are my best guess for the weights of each:

Unmounted spare w/ tube:... 20#
Food Shelving Modification: ....2#
HDTV & Mount:...................... 5#
WDH - Equal-i-zer Brand:..... 92#
2 Folding Chairs:..................10#
1 Alum. Folding Table:............5#
Gear packed in TM:............. 300#
TOTAL:.............................. 434#

I hate to break this info up, but I have one more weight (tongue Wt.)coming which I won't have it till Friday.

How will we be able to access this data and when will you start making it available?

ZekenSpider

10-17-2009, 12:26 AM

Jerry,
This going to be a great database when you finish it. My weights on the 'as-shipped' sticker are as follows:

GVRW:............ 4217#
UVW:.............. 3213#
26 Gal. H2O:..... 216#
LP Gas 9.5 Gal.:...40#
CCC:................ 748#

How will we be able to access this data and when will you start making it available?

Don;

Attached is the latest revision to the spreadsheet (which includes your recent information) I'm still groping with the best way to display the data.

You can always find the latest revision by looking under the forum "General Discussions" at the thread title "Actual Weight of My TM" then click on the attachment symbol (paper clip). That will give you a list of all attachments. Look for the latest "TM GTWx" and click on it to open.

Eventually I think Bill will figure out a way to keep it in the reference library.

Thanks for your input. I hope I entered it correctly. I am awaiting your tongue weight and will enter that when it is available.

BTW:

Certified Weight of above load taken at RAC Materials, LLC in Tomball, TX.
All weights are with TV and TM Connected:

TV Front Axle = 2420#
TV both Axles = 5380#
TV Back Axle & TM Axle = 6080#
TM Axle only = 3260#

From this data I get that your GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) is either 2420+6080 = 8500# or 5380+3260 = 8640#. I suspect the 140# discrepancy is the effect of the WDH and is an indication of the weight added to the TM axle by the WDH spring bar force.

Because of the way a WDH works, your actual axle weight measurements are biased in a way that adds more weight to the TV front axle, removes some weight from the TV rear axle and adds more weight to the TM axle.

The actual numbers can be figured out mathematically but we would need 1)the length of the TV wheel base, 2) the distance from the TV rear axle to hitch ball, 3) the distance from the hitch ball to the spring bar rear anchor points, 4) the distance from the TM hitch ball to TM axle and finally, the force of the spring bars pulling down on the TM frame.

This would allow us to calculate the lever arms (moments) and determine how much a weight is added to the TM axle.

Too much trouble IMHO but interesting to a geek like me as I play with the physics of trailer towing.

Regards,

Jerry

Wavery

10-17-2009, 12:46 AM

ZekenSpider

10-17-2009, 01:09 PM

Jerry,

I guess that you missed post #63. I added my actual weights.:)

Trailer Axle.........................3440#
Trailer tongue weight..............490#

Gross trailer weight...............3930#
(No WDH used)

My GTW from 2008 was 4103# but now I carry my generator, tables, matt, EZ-Up and chairs in the TV.
Wayne

I sure did! Sorry!!! Now I wonder who else I missed.

Here is the revision including your information.

Thanks for the Heads-Up.

Jerry

dw8ite

10-25-2009, 09:17 PM

I am awaiting your tongue weight and will enter that when it is available.

From this data I get that your GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) is either 2420+6080 = 8500# or 5380+3260 = 8640#. I suspect the 140# discrepancy is the effect of the WDH and is an indication of the weight added to the TM axle by the WDH spring bar force.

Jerry:

I finally got around to weighing my tongue. It weighs 486# with the TM level and unloaded. Note that all other weights furnished were taken in the loaded condition.

Also, even with your explanation, I don't understand the 140# discrepancy. The weights were all taken as I moved from one position to another on the scales and, seems to me that the two scenarios would have to be the same. I think maybe the "weigher" rounded each figure slightly and the 104# is an accumulation of rounding. Note that the weigh slip was hand written and not stamped and certified.

Lastly, I like your starting spreadsheet, but I can see why you indicated you were struggling with it. You will almost have to specify how you want it weighed to minimize the type of data you receive.

Good Luck,

Bill

10-28-2009, 01:22 PM

You can always find the latest revision by looking under the forum "General Discussions" at the thread title "Actual Weight of My TM" then click on the attachment symbol (paper clip).

Eventually I think Bill will figure out a way to keep it in the reference library.You bet we'll put it in the Library! This is exactly the kind of thing that belongs there, and this is a particularly valuable data base.

We'll put it in the Library whenever you are ready. However, once it is in the Library, it is harder to update - not impossible, just harder. Do you want to let it settle down a bit, both in format and in content, before we do it? Give me a ping whenever you are ready.

Bill

Jim&Joan

11-08-2009, 09:31 PM

Jerry:

I finally got around to weighing my tongue. It weighs 486# with the TM level and unloaded. ...

Good Luck,

Is your TM level when hitched? Seems to get a valid tongue wt. you have to have the TM in the same attitude as when hitched. So, however many inches your tongue is above ground on the hitch is where you need it to be when you weigh it.

When using the single scale and beam, the beam needs to be level, also, right? So the fulcrum point needs to be the same ht. as the scale on level ground. The tongue needs to be very centered between the fulcrum and the scale load point. And then you need to subtract 1/2 the weight of the beam.

I know the ideal attitude of the TM when towing is level, but if your setup is off level, you need to weigh it in that position.

dw8ite

11-08-2009, 10:55 PM

Is your TM level when hitched? Seems to get a valid tongue wt. you have to have the TM in the same attitude as when hitched. So, however many inches your tongue is above ground on the hitch is where you need it to be when you weigh it.

When using the single scale and beam, the beam needs to be level, also, right? So the fulcrum point needs to be the same ht. as the scale on level ground. The tongue needs to be very centered between the fulcrum and the scale load point. And then you need to subtract 1/2 the weight of the beam.

I know the ideal attitude of the TM when towing is level, but if your setup is off level, you need to weigh it in that position.

Jim & Joan:
Thanks for checking me. The trailer hitch weight was with the trailer level. Also, when hitched to WDH the trailer is level.

I did use a fulcrum beam with single scale, except I call the point between the jack and the scale the fulcrum (pivot point). BTW, the weight only varied slightly when I jacked the beam higher than level, say 1/2 bubble would mean about 4-5#/2=2-2.5#.

I think the weight is good for publication.