Tires

:'(We just traveled 4400 miles and didn't have a blowout, but only because we checked the new 15" Carlisle tires every 100-150 miles for heat and pressure. One developed a blister on the sidewall near the tread. After taking it off, we found a blister on the inside wall about the same size but about 180 degrees around from the other. I bought a Goodyear Marathon to see how it does. It is a 6 ply vs. the Carlisle's 5 ply. Both are Load Range D and I keep 65 pounds cold in them (which translates to about 72 pounds hot). Is there any reason I can't use a truck tire on the trailer? We did this years ago on utility trailers and small pop-up's. As soon as we went to a speed rated 12" or 13" radial car tires all problems ceased. (just be sure they can carry the load).
AND I weighed my 3124 and the axle weight was 4160 on one scale and 4240 on another. No wonder the old Load Range "C" Electra tires would not hold up. The D's are rated at over 2500 pounds of weight per tire. What has the factory recently switched to??

[hal]

O.K., time for another poll,  a Tire Poll. I keep hearing different reports on the tire blow-out problem.  I have heard blow out problems with just about every brand of tire. A variety of tire pressures is recommended  
1-What tire problem(s) did you have?  2- What was the model # and year of TrailManor? (3)What was the brand and size of the tire that failed? (4) Approximate age  or accumulated mileage of tire?  (5) To what do you attribute the problem?  (6) Cold and hot tire pressure used?  (7) How faithful were you at checking and maintaining tire pressure?  (8)Recommended solution to eliminating problem  (9) Recommended replacement (brand, size, grade, etc) of tire.  (10) What steps have you taken to solve problem  (11) what number of people are you aware of that had a tire problem  (12) What steps should be taken while driving and a tire failure occurs?  (13) other comments or suggestions? :o

I have a 2001 3326King. It came with Goodyear Marathons on it.

As far as your question about using truck tires on the trailer, as long as they meet, (or better yet, EXCEED), the load rating,,,, I used to sell tires, and in my opinion, (and my opinion only),the answer is, yes, you can. (This is going to get a response from others) :)  

The "ST" on the tire means "special trailer". Those tires are made of a different rubber compound than car/truck tires. A car/truck tire will dry-rot just by sitting. Driving them keeps the rubber compound flexible, hence helping them last longer. Since a trailer usually just sits, (compared to a car/truck), the ST tires are made of a different compound than doesn't need to be "driven" as much to keep from rotting. So, if you watch the load rating, you can run truck tires on your trailer,,,, but,,,,.

Remember, this is nothing more than my opinion. I don't want to get a debate of any kind going here.

Mack

1. Blowout's (2) and 1 ready to blow (sidewall blister)
2. 1998 3124SL
3. Electra "C" (2 original) Carlisle "D" (1) 15"
4. Like new. No major wear.
5. Electra was load range "C" > Axle weight on truck scales was 4150 pounds. Load range "D" Carlisle and Goodyear rated at #2550 per tire.
6. Electra #50 cold. Carlisle #65 cold, #72 when checked hot.
Goodyear Marathon Load Range "D" 65 cold.
7. Checked every 100-150 miles for heat and air pressure.
Also now observe for any blisters or deformities.
8. Use a truck tire, speed rated, same size, load range "D".
(unless someone can tell me why you can't use a truck tire.)
9. Unknown at this time. Appears TrailManor has used 3 different brands and both Load Range "C" and "D" over last 4 years.
10. Next week will see what Gateway Tire will do with the failed Carlisle. Tire shop said manufacturing defect.  Gateway replaced the tire for FREE!  No charge to mount or balance!
Goodyear now has 3000 miles with no problem. Also, it is a full 6 ply tire, the Carlisle a 5 ply and the Electra a 4 ply. Another plus for the Goodyear is that it is made in Canada.
12. Try to buy a "Tire Saver" monitor available this fall. Screws on valve stem and if pressure drops, it sends a signal to the unit mounted in your vehicle.

Thanks :) for confirming what my tire guy told me. I have a 1998 2720 and the previous treatment of the tires is unknown. This model has 14" rims and no one can offer me a load range D tire. All they can find is a 6-ply load range C.
Dry weight is supposed to be 2720#, add the options (like a/c) and dishes and junk for a family of four and my safe weight guess is at least 3700#, tires on it now are BIG O ST 215/75 D14 with max load of 1870# (that's 3740# total). I would like more of a safety margin to decrease tire heating etc.
Tire man says that the 14" load range D truck tire was designed for a Toyota 1-ton pick up. He has them on order and I will be able to inspect on ?Thursday. The tire width is a little thinner and has a different aspect ratio so the diameter is supposed to be 1/4" less. Here's to hoping I won't have to buy new rims.
Thanks again for the ST designation confirmation.

1995 Model 3023

1 blowout last year with tire of unknown age.  Minor damage- did the wheelwell mods before leaving on vacation.

No blowouts since replacing.  Faithfully monitor pressure- 50 psi with ST205/75R14-C

2600 mile round trip Rochester, NY to Disney World in Florida in 90+ degree weather, no tire problems.

We had the unit weighed "empty" with 2 adults:
>Front axle of Safari: 2780#
>Rear axle of Safari: 2620#
>TrailManor axle: 3240#  (GAWR is 3500)

We kept the heaviest stuff in the van for the long trip.

I attribute our blowout to age of tire and weight on tire.  They are close to their rated load without putting any "stuff" in the trailer.

::)My 1999 2720 had carlisle tires with less than 5000 miles on them at the time one blew out.  I had less than 1/2 of an inch clearance on the curb side of the trailer between that tire and the frame member which has since been adjusted.  The tire literally ran into the frame at speed as or before it came apart doing a lot of damage to the wheelwell.

I took it to the Trailmanor factory and they denied any responsibility for it.  

In doing research on the problem, I discovered several common areas that could contribute to the problem no matter who the manufacturer is.  They all say the major cause of tire failure is 1] underinflation, and 2] overloading.
I maintained my tires at the recommended pressure of 50 lb.  However, when it comes to loading, I find that like most of us, I was running pretty close to the recommended limits.  

There is one area however, that most have not mentioned in their correspondence.  That area is in dynamic balancing of the tire/wheel.  Most manufacturers do not balance their wheels because they run solid axles.  The Trailmanor has swing axles which mimics independent wheel suspension to a point.  Trailmanor does not balance the wheels.  These wheels are quite heavy if you want to pick them up.  When they are out of balance, the innertia moment of force is considerable.  Add that repetitive force to a highly loaded tire and you can exceed the load ratings of the tire.  I bought two Goodyear tires and each one required  two to three ounces of weight to bring into balance.  I took the original Carlisle spare in to have balanced and it took two weights, one was 2.75 ounces, and the second weight was one ounce.  I would recommend that those who are concerned with the tire problem take their spare tires and have them balanced.  I believe when they see how much weight it takes to get them in balance that they will have the other tires balanced also.  I also believe that this was the root of our tire problems.  George Kaman

George
Why were you only running 50 pounds in your Carlisle tires?
Are they not load range "D"? My TrailManor tire label only applies to load range "C" tires ( 50 pounds). 3 Tire shops have all told me to run the maximum #65 in my Carlisle and Goodyear tires. The old load range "C" tires had a maximum inflation of #50.  I don't know about my original tires, but the Carlisle that I just had fail was balanced as all of my replacements have been.  I can't believe that the factory does not balance tires of that size.

 8)  My tires are ST205/75/14 load range C which is 1760 Lb.  I have looked in vain for a load range D in a 14 inch.  If you find any let me know.  However, load range C has a max pressure of 50lb.  How was your trip?  I'm leaving for Vermont day after tomorrow.  If I have more tire problems, I'll jack this thing up and put tandem axles under it!  George ;D

Also, I was up at the factory to pick up a new wheel well cover to replace the damaged one.  I looked over a stack of new tires which were covered with plastic.  None were balanced.  How many of you have checked for balance weights on your tires?  John says he can't believe that Trailmanor would not balance the tires.  My question is, How many have checked to see if their tires were balanced?  When checked, were they or weren't they balanced?  George ::)

George
Sorry, I assumed the Carlisle tires were load range D.
I found a "D" in a 205/75R14
Truck tire.  My next purchases will be truck tires not trailer,
Since some truck tires are speed rated and no one seems to have a clue as to trailer tires.
Michelin XCA  
Load 2270 pounds at 65 pounds air pressure
26.5 inch overall diameter.  
Even found a 195/14 with #2000 capacity.
I checked TOWMASTER as I had good luck with them on a Jayco, but they only offer bias ply tires.
Based on the other responses, it looks like the only choice is a truck tire.  GOOD LUCK

8)  Thanks for the information John,  next time I have to get tires, it will be truck tires.  In researching trailer tires, they say that trailer tires need stiffer sides due to high vertical wind loads.  The Trailmanor doesn't suffer the high vertical loads of a normal camper.  Truck tires sound like a good choice to improve the max load range which I might be exceeding.  Will keep you posted when I get back from Vermont.   George

I just replaced my 14" load range C tires with truck tires. I did not know the history of the tires (bought TM used) but they did not match the spare. The tire store said that the truck tires are made for a 1 ton Toyota?, anyhow what I bought were made by Woosung tire company (which I believe is now Nexen tire company) and the size is 195R14 model SV-820 8P.R. load capacity of 2095#@65psi.
They are about 1/4" smaller in diameter.
George, how did you perform the adjustment (increase clearance behind tire)? Is it just a matter of unbolting and sliding or were there modifications to be made? My 2720 had less than 3/8" with the old tires.

:) Brian,
    I jacked up the trailer and loosened four 13/16 bolts.  The bolt holes are just a little larger than the bolts.  In my case, I had 7/16 of an inch clearance between the wheel and frame member on curb side, about an inch on the other side.  Now, it measures just a hair under 3/4 of an inch on both sides.  Measurement taken with wheels on ground with full trailer weight.  Good luck.  George

http://www.dexteraxle.com/
has a great site for brake and bearing parts for their axles.  They also have an online service manual section.  As for tires

"Before mounting tires onto wheels make certain that the rim size
and contour is approved for the tire as shown in the Tire and Rim
Association Yearbook or the tire manufacturers catalog. Also
make sure the tire will carry the rated load. If the load is not
equal on all tires due to trailer weight distribution, use the tire
rated for the heaviest wheel position.
Note: The capacity rating molded into the sidewall of the tire is
not always the proper rating for the tire if used in a trailer
application. Use the following guideline:
1. LT and ST tires. Use the capacity rating molded into the
tire.
2. Passenger Car Tires. Use the capacity rating molded into
the tire sidewall divided by 1.10."

There is a great article on trailer tires in the July/August issue of Camping Life. They make several interesting statements. First they say that you should not use passenger (as we knew) or truck tires on a trailer as these tires don't have the stiff, beefy sidewalls and other structural features needed for trailer use. They say that the cords are of a larger diameter and the steel in the belts is of a larger diameter. to meet the additional load requirements. They also say that ALL trailer tires are speed rated for a maximum of 65 mph. They give the life of a tire as 3-5 years no matter how many or few miles are driven. They say that the internal air pressures force air into the rubber causing oxidation of the rubber. They suggest that all trailer tires will lose aprox 1 lb of air per month. In order to maximize life, jack up the trailer, reduce the air pressure and cover the tires. If you have a blowout on a tandem axle, replace both tires as the second one has been seriously overloaded! They also said that typically a bias tire was considered better for a trailer, but the new radials run cooler so it is not as cut and dried as it once was. These aren't my opinions, but those of the writer and the five tire companies who contributed. (those were Carlysle, Cooper, Goodyear, Greenball, and Titan.

So what do us folks do that drive the speed limit of 75 mph on the Interstate do?  Seems like the minimum speed rating for car tires is 113 mph.  I bought a TrailManor, so I could tow at the various speed limits.  I have friends with pop-up campers that would never dream of limiting their speed to 65.
I can understand how those with large tall trailers might have to limit their speed.  I'm looking forward to the article, but it looks like a truck tire is the only answer, especially if you want a margin of safety.

I screwed up! I talked about the tire article in Trailer Life earlier. The article was in CAMPING LIFE July/August issue. I didn't realize my mistake until John emailed me to ask about it. (I have now modified the original message with the correction.) If anyone wants to send me their address or fax# I will send it to them. Sorry, Denny

After going hot and heavy on this subject for awhile, no one is reporting much now.  Just an update, we eventually settled on the Carlyle BIAS tires.  From everything I could find out the bias tires are better suited to trailers.  I have checked the tire pressure everytime it has moved, and am very carefull to keep the pressure at 50 PSI.  I bought a "truck tire guage" of good quality and checked it against the various cheapy guages that I had around.  I found a wide variance on them.  One would read 50 psi when it was actually around 43-44.  This could be a major source of failures.  We have traveled about 2500 miles at speeds on the Southern interstates of 73-78 mph. (don't tell anyone).  I check tire temperature at each stop, (the good old hand on the tire method) and have never felt that they were running too hot.  I have done the wheelwell mods, so am prepared for a blowout, but hopefully won't see one.  Not an earthshattering report, just an update.  Denny & Gailyn

[2swans]

having pulled our TM only 40 or so miles hardly qualifies me as an expert, but i will say that we purchased new Michelin XCA 8-ply tires for our 98 2720sl. we bought the TM last month, and the tires on it were some kind of Kelly tires--looked like one had a blister on it. we hope the Mich's will do the job. they are not ST tires, but we talked to a technical person at michelin and were told these are the tire they offer for travel trailers. specifically, they are made for light delivery trucks. we plan to keep the tires sprayed with 303 aerospace UV inhibitor and keep them covered during off-season.we learned about these tires from a TM post by paul heuvelhorst. anyone have an opinion on these tires? would appreciate hearing from you. thanks, 2swans.

I missed last year's article in Camping Life, but the September 2002 issue of Trailer Life has a great article about trailer tires.  We just replaced ours after the blow out a couple of weeks ago.  I noticed the date on the old tires, and they were from 1996, so I guess we were living on borrowed time.

I think one of the important points is that you can not always tell by looking when a tire is worn out.

[DancinCampers]

Good day all,

We purchased our unit this past July, & it came with new tires.  They are Titan ST 205/75R14.  Haven't put many miles on them yet.

I want to thank Hal for sending us the info on the wheel well mod.  Investigation has me to believe that the right side tire previously blew out with minor damage.  The well has a piece of 1x2 wood installed & the gap in the metal front corner has a lot of duct tape.

Would appreciate any info from TM owner's who are running Titan tires.

Dan

PS: Love this forum