STORING TM IN AN OPEN, UPRIGHT POSITION?

We have a goodsized barn with a large, open driveway area where our TM 3023 will be stored during the winter months. We are considering storing it fully opened since there is plenty of space to allow for this, and it then becomes quick and easy to access for whatever reasons we want to get into it like checking on its general condition and readying it for a trip. (We are making careful anti-mouse preparations.) Are there reasons (aside from the whole thing getting a bit dusty) why we should not store the TM open in the barn?

If anything, I would tend to think that it would be better to store your trailer open in the barn. Being left open, I expect that it would release alot of the tension off your torsion bars. If the ceiling was high enough in my garage, mine would be open.

Mack

[arknoah]

I can't think of any reason not to store it opened up.  The only thing we obviously shouldn't try to do is to move or tow it opened, because it wasn't designed that way.  You should also be able to see if any kind of animal or bug gets in, so that's an added plus to having it up.

F.J. & Ellen

[hal]

Are you ready for my opinion?   I don't believe that I would store my trailer in a open position for several months.  Part of the engineering of the TrailManor is the spring mechanism that helps lift (and lower) the top shells.  By keeping the roof in a standing position, does this put stress on the springs, thus making them tired?  I have always heard that  a camera for example should not be placed on the shelf in a cocked position.  It is much like taking a deep breath and holding it for a long while.   Also, I would think that there would be less chance of insects and other critters to get into the trailer in a folded position.  Besides, if I had a storage like your barn, I would enjoy going out (even in a blizzard) and petting my trailer once in a while.  It doesn't take much to raise it and then become a big game hunter looking for tracks of unwanted residents.

Is this a question for the factory?

[arknoah]

Hal,

I would think the stress on the springs would be in the middle of the stroke, and there would be less stress on them in either the fully closed or fully open position.  

Better yet, though, is your suggestion to perhaps address this with the factory. I don't know if any one of us really has the expertise to make more than anecdotal comments on this question.

F. J. & Ellen

Thanks for the thoughtful comments, y'all.  It seems as though the best thing for me to do is call the factory and ask.  That's what I will do--probably next week as the next few days are going to be very hectic ones for us.  I will let you know what they tell me.

Clearly, the torsion bars are more highly stressed in the closed position.  However that isn't a bad thing if properly engineered.  One also compresses the rubber pads and plastic seals in the closed position of which these materials can creep [takes a set].

If nothing else matters and in an enclosed area, I would store open, since it's one less open / close cycle between excursions.  However, since most Trailmanors are successful stored closed, there obviously isn't much difference.

I spent 7 years working for a defense contractor. Four of those years
were in the manufacture of torsion bars and other suspension
components. The engineering behind torsion bars is that they will
only operate in a range such that permanent characteristic changes
(plastic deformation) will not occur. Unlike coil springs which can
relax if left compressed, torsion springs will never loose their spring
unless they are exposed to overstress conditions. As I have seen
TM's from the early 90's that have not had a problem, I would
surmise that they are properly engineered and whether left up or
down, no change will occur. Torsion bars are used in many
applications where the weight of the vehicle is always loading the
spring (Chevrolet trucks, Volkswagon cars, Bradley fighting vehicle).
They fail when they are cycled through a range of motion many
hundreds of thousands of times. When the do fail, it is a fracture
across the entire cross section of the spring (i.e. it breaks). IMHO,
the torsion springs are nothing to worry about. Whether left open or
closed is a matter of personal convenience.

Brian, thank you for your helpful response and explanation--you make perfect sense to me!  TrailManor stresses the advantages of its torsion bars and their guarantee that they will open and close properly for years and years so I could not see how having the TM open for a period of time would harm anything, but needed to be sure that for some reason I could not foresee,  it would not cause a problem.  Being a novice I know I still  have much to learn, and this board has been extremely helpful ever since I first discovered it over a year ago.   (I have read EVERY thread on the old board as well as the ones on the new one and have found something useful in each one! :) ;)

I wish I could store mine open in a barn. You didn't state so but it is assumed that you will take the usual precautions for storage to keep out critters and take the weight off the tires, keep full pressure in them, prepare for `freezing' weather as necessary, etc.

Dick B

[Carol]

???
Dick B - You said that the weight should be taken off the tires for storage. What method do you recommend? We thought we had the TM all set for winter storage (closed) in the garage, but the weight is on the tires and the hitch in a level position. Should we put the stabilizers down? Or, are you recommending putting the TM up on blocks of some sort? If so, what would the locations be?

Thanks, Carol

[Paul_Heuvelhorst]

There is no reason to take the weight of the trailer off the tires.  Store the trailer just as tho' you were camping (open or closed), level it, put down the stabilizers, and cover the wheels to prevent UV exposure from the sun.  Make sure the tires are fully inflated to max. recommended pressure.  Some say the tires should not contact the ground... roll the trailer up on some 2x6 planks, if you want to.  I always stored mine on a pad made of crushed rock and it did just fine.

Our new trailer is stored inside a building at our local fairgrounds for the winter and the floor is covered with wood chips.

You'll not find a requirement to take weight off the tires in the TrailManor (or any other mfr) instruction book.  It falls into the "old wives tale" catagory.

Best wishes for successful travels with your "rolling home."

[hal]

I wonder if the theory about removing the weight from the tires during storage comes from the earlier pop up days in which the tires were smaller and needed quality design to make them better.  It was a common problem then that if your tires sat on cold concrete during a winter, the spot of contact on the tire would weaken.  In about 1970, we were pulling a pop up many miles north of Columbus, Ohio. One tire blew.  No problem, we just put on the spare and about a mile down the road the second tire blew.  We had already unhooked our trailer, prepared to abandon it by the side of the road so that we could begin a futile search for tires.  Thank goodness for an Ohio state patrolman who came to our rescue.  Where in the world would you find two new tires at near closing time.  He got on his radio and located a couple some fifty miles away.  He then took me in his car at high speed to get there before closing.  My feet never touched the floorboard the whole trip there and back.  We will be ever grateful.

According to the article in Camping World that I referenced in the "tires" section, the tires should be off the ground and the pressure reduced.  They stated that the higher pressure forces oxygen into the rubber and causes oxidation which contributes to the breakdown of the tires over time.  They stated that this is the reason that tires will go bad even if not used.  This article was written by the author with the help of five tire manufacturers.  I assume that this would take it out of the "old wives tales" category.

[Paul_Heuvelhorst]

Dennis,
I don't want to sound negative about the helpful information you've provided, however, if the article to which you refer is credible, how does that theory square with driving your rig hundreds or thousands of miles, inflated to the max, with all the weight of the rig directly borne by the tires?  The writer of the article seems to suggest that removing the tires from the rig and storing them on a shelf would make the most sense.  ??? I don't subscribe to his theory based on more than 45 years of practical experience.

In years past, when bias ply tires were used, especially the old nylon belted, the tire would develop a "flat spot" if it remained stationary for several weeks and ride very uncomfortably for many miles before the tire regained its shape.  That is not an issue with radial steel belted tires.

Underinflation and UV rays are the worst enemy of today's tires.

I agree about underinflation being the major problem with tires.  Their explanation of why high pressures when stored caused a degradation made sense to me.  When you are traveling with the tires inflated to the maximum you might very well be forcing the air deeper into the rubber.  However, you travel for a very small portion of the year where you store it for a major portion.  They were talking about the life of a tire being determined by the age, not by the milage.  They estimated the safe usable life of a tire as 3 to 5 years regardless of milage.  It was not stated, but seemed to be implied that the difference in life was whether or not the tires were stored correctly, ie: off the ground, reduced pressure and covered.  I am by no means a tire expert, but have made an effort to learn.  The article was written by a gentleman with the assistance of five tire companies who were quoted throughout.  
They included Goodyear, Titan and others, the same brands that we all use. You may very well be correct in your assumptions, however all of the above storage methods cost nothing and may be helpful, just as I am trying to be.  As it says beside my name, I am a newbie, so take that into consideration.

As an engineer involved with materials and gas permeation,I agree with Paul and several others  I wouldn't bother to underinflate or to remove load from your tires for storage -- it wouldn't hurt or help.

Vulcanized rubber naturally deteriorates from oxygen and ozone, accelerated by temperature, and light (UV).

So ideal storage is a cool, dark place, and use armor-all to help limit air contact on the outside surface although this is more aesthetic protection against surface aging than tire function.

[arknoah]

All I can say is that I only learned about the theory of putting tires off the ground (on plastic, or wood, etc.) after I got my TM winterized and backed into the garage.  My hope is that the load is even enough on all points of contact to avoid any undue oressure on the tires.  Also, I hope that since mine is stored inside, that should provide a better environment for the tires than having it stored outside.

Here's a question though:  should I put down the stabilizers on the four corners of the trailer while it is stored?  I only ask because it would take some of the weight of the trailer, but since we can't open the trailer inside the garage, I don't know if this "extra measure" is wise, or just too much concern on the part of a newer owner.

F. J. & Ellen

[Paul_Heuvelhorst]

We all encounter different circumstances that dictate how we prepare our units for storage.

We had studded tires installed on our sedan last month and bought an extra set of steel wheels so we could just pop the studded tires off the car and install the other tires when the weather clears. I asked the tire company about best way to store the tires. The manager's response was to "barrel stack them, fully inflated on the garage floor." I did it just a little differently, since I had room in my storage shed to add a shelf upon which I barrel stacked them 2 tires on top of each other.

Anything you can do to stablize the trailer will help. Normally, your stablizer jacks don't bear any significant weight except when you are moving around in the trailer, but I put the stablizers down and give each an extra 1/4 or 1/2 turn to make them bear some weight. I don't think this will have much to do with relieving weight on the tires, but it may.

I store my current trailer in a building at the local fairgrounds. The tires are fully inflated and the ground is covered with sawdust (since they use it as a show ring during fair season). I removed the batteries and propane tanks and store them at home.

I hope this helps you find an appropriate solution for your concerns.

On the thread of trailer tires when stored, as much as we'd like to keep trailer tires rolling, they spend a lot of time parked.   I've had the same dilemna with old cars.

If you can remove the load from the tires and put the trailer on blocks, that'll help the tires from flat-spotting where they remain parked for a long time.   I found if I kept my old Mustang parked for several months, it'd take a week or more of "heated" driving for the flat spot vibration to become tolerable.  As the tires got older and harder, this length of time got longer until I finally had to replace the tires.   The new tires didn't seem to suffer so much.

Then if you already have the tires off the trailer, you might as well reduce the air pressure (less stress) and put them inside (UV light dries and cracks tires).

We have stored our TrailManor open for almost two years.  When I asked the factory about it they said it would be fine. The trailer does get rather dirty (we do not have a barn to put it in) but we love being able to get into it.  The kids even used it for a club house on a rainy day.  We also are able to easily keep the battery charged.

That's my 2 cents!