Storage question

[PaulineF]

We are considering the purchase of a new TM. We have owned a Coleman pop-up for 16 years (a Sequoia model) and have enjoyed the ease of towing and space it provided us.

The new TM we are considering is a 2720. We would like to purchase a 3024KB but are concerned that our 2000 Ford Explorer 2WD with its 4.0L engine will not be really adequate for towing the 3024. Although we live in south Louisiana and will use the TM more often in the southern and eastern parts of the US, we do plan trips out west where the elevations will be higher. From the info we have found on the TM owners' pages, it appears that the 2720 would be a more realistic purchase for us and the TV we own. (We don't anticipate purchase of a bigger TV in the future either.)

My concern is one of storage options in the TMs. (Our current pop-up seems to have more storage space than the TMs.) We would appreciate suggestions from TM owners on how to maximize the storage space available in a 2027 TM.

Thanks, and we certainly appreciate the wealth of info posted on this TM owners' site. The information is very helpful us as we make our decisions.

Pauline F

[Queeniereads]

We were all set to buy the smaller one and then decided on the 3124KS becuase of the King Sized bed. Storage was not, in our minds, a problem with either model. THere is great storage under the bed, and as someone else said, there is lots of room on the floor even when the unit is down. We have yet to use half of the storage available. What hyou may want in the smaller model is drawer space -- buy those little plastic drawer sets at Walmart. We love our TM and find it roomy and full of places to put things. Quieeniereads aka Judi

[PaulineF]

Our Sequoia is a a 1996 model. We bought it used 16 years ago. When we tow it loaded now it weighs only about 1500 pounds. We never used the inside stove or sink, preferring to cook outside on the stove that is stored in a drawer on the outside of the pop-up. We use the second bed area to place the suitcases, food boxes, camera, etc.

(The new Sequoia has more options now than our old camper, including a flushable ceramic toilet.)

We are two adults, and my husband is 6' 4". We have recently retired.

Our longest trip in the pop-up was a two week one. We are pretty conservative in how much stuff we bring. We, too, purchase groceries along the way, carriyng enough food for several days, and do laundry regularly. Occasionally we put a canoe on the Explorer.

Hopes this helps give others an idea of our camping style and needs!

Pauline

[fcatwo]

You didn't say how many days you'll be driving compared to camping but my advice is to get the trailer you want as long as it's within your TV's tow rating and you can live with a little less speed. Otherwise you'll regret not doing so and take a bath on trading up to a larger trailer as well as a new TV. Having said that, I can say we do just fine in our 2619 and have averaged 2-5 months and 7-8K mi per year with it. There are a lot of silent members here who tow successfully with TVs others consider inadequate.

[PopBeavers]

Last July (2005) I filled up my TV and TM 2720 with everything I thought I would every want. Less than half of the TM floor was covered with extra items like chairs. I was full of water and propane. Fridge was stuffed. One of the goals of the trip was to weigh it all.

I was 120 pounds lighter than the TM axle limit. I ran out of weight capacity before I ran out of floor space.

We had clothes for 2 adults for 5 days. More cans of soda/beer than I thought I would ever carry on any trip.

I will agree that cupboard space is tight. However, overall space is fine for us.

I THINK I have a posting from around that time with more details. You might take a look at stuff I posted in July or August.

[heyokasni]

We're just transitioning from a 27 foot Winnebago (otherwise known as the money pit that breaks down a lot) to a 1988 TrailManor 26 (Same as 3023) that we just purchased. There is definitely less storage in the TM than the Winnebago. Also, the storage is at less convenient heights.

However, as has already been pointed out, there is a lot of storage space on the floor for getting things to your camp site.

We're planning on taking a hard look at what we actually need to be comfortable focusing on multiple use and lightness. It will be a challenge because we're both Pack Rats. I think we'll end up stowing a lot of things on whichever bed we decide not to sleep on. I'm also thinking that we may take advantage of storing some things outside the trailer in the space under the beds. It seems like that should be a viable option as long as you can keep things dry and secure. Is anyone else doing this?

Good luck in getting your TrailManor.

[B_and_D]

I like to bring a lot of stuff with us too, but with the TM I've made an effort to find things to bring along that fit together in a way to minimize the storage space needed for these things. There is quite a bit of storage space in the drawers and cabinets, also under the drawers. In our 2720, there is a lot of space under the drawers next to the rear bed. I keep a lot of stuff under there, spare parts, the dominoes, also a tool kit with the things & parts we need to keep the TM repaired in an old casette tape case. It fits perfectly under there.

Until this last trip I took up a whole drawer with these items, but moved things into smaller cases (I shop the local thrift stores for various-sized cases that aren't available now) that can be stashed at the back of a cabinet, or in the upper front cabinets.

Also, some things I like to keep in the tow vehicle in case we need to get to them. We have two fold-up/roll-up toiletry bags that hang in the bathroom; one of them, with the ibuprofen, bandaids, tums, etc. goes in the tow vehicle. Everything in those bags is in small packages or zipper bags. I restock after each trip before the bag goes back into the TM.

The biggest problem I have is a place for shoes. This last trip, I put our shoes that we wear regularly into a hanging shoe thingey with puffy pockets that hangs over the bathroom wall next to the kitchen sink. My kids wear Vans, and they are big shoes. It's hard to get all of our shoes into the cabinet below the rear bed. This hanging shoe thingey was originally designed to hang over the rear of the bathroom wall for eyeglasses, books, TV remote, etc. for the rear bed area, so I guess I'll have to get another one.

We bought one of those stacked plastic drawer things that I set on the counter next to the wardrobe, we only have one kitchen drawer because our unit had the side a/c. I keep our plastic bags, tin foil, spices, kitchen utensils, clothespins, etc. in those drawers. We usually do a lot of cooking when we camp so these items are necessary for us.

I just keep trying different things, and different arrangements, and this last trip everyone said that we seemed really well organized and that they could find everything (!!!). Wherever I go, I'm always on the lookout for things that I think will make the storage better for us. Everyone's needs are different, and it's kind of a challenge to get things organized in a way that works for you.

But I think we're finally getting there!

[Bill & Lisa]

I am still alittle confused on what it is you had for a pop up. 16 years ago the 1990's would have been the new model. If you brought your unit used was it a 1986? (instead of a 1996?)

We traded up from a starcraft 1702 which had a 8' foot box I believe. We loaded alot of stuff into that camper but all of it and more fit in our TM (which is the 3023 model)

Bill

[PaulineF]

Yes, the Coleman pop-up was a 1986. (Sorry for the typo.)

I checked the owner's manual and the GVWR is 1995 pounds. Cargo capacity is 540 pounds. Curb weight dry is 1340, and hitch wt dry is 115.

I certainly have appreciated the comments so far.

Pauline

[hal]

We have a 2720SD and find that there is enough storage for all that we might wish to take with us. Just remember, you no longer need to take a tent, 2 extra stoves etc. Also, while there is plenty of space under the table and on the floor, remember that you are going to need to move it out of the way once you reach the campground. It is nice to walk in and begin using your TM once you have set it up..... and nothing in your way to make yourself at home.

For those space concious people, I have some free plans for installing Elfa type drawers under your cabinets. As it is without them you will need to get down on your knees with a flash light and look through a jumble of canned goods to find what you want to eat for the next meal. This set up requires a few tools (hammer or rubber mallet, hack saw,and an electric drill.

You can send me an email at [email protected]. I will send them back to your email address.

[hal]

Hello Leon, We had used the method of stacking plastic boxes on top of each other inside the storage area. It was ok for a while but not only was it necessary for one to get down on their knees but also to lift the top box with its contents up and off the other box. Then while on our knees, we had to rummage through the contents of the lower box. Next was to lift box and set it back on top of the others inside the cabinet. Being on our knees, this put most of the lifting on the lower section of our spine. But then the most difficult part was getting back up to a standing position. The aisle is narrow and there is little to grab to use in pulling ourselves up. Having to do this many times during a trip prooved to be a real drag plus a pain in the back.

With this drawer set up, it was easy to remain standing and pull out the drawer, reach in and grab a can of soup or whatever. Also, the baskets come in three different depths. In one opening we opted to put the shallowest drawer at the top. This means anything small like spices, cocoa mix, etc were not buried under the contents in the dark storage compartment. I guess also that we wanted something more permanant.

Hal

[BrigCA61]

Hi Hal, we want to thank you for sending us those fine drawer plans. They look fantastic - as if made for the Trailmanor. You did an outstanding job making up the plans on paper too. We actually have something similar we set up in one of the smaller pantry's in our home kitchen which works very well. This particular set-up we found at Home Depot. My husband is excited to get going on this project. Just curious however... I see how great this works for normal food stuffs in the cabinets/drawers... but how do you store your pots and pans? Right now I have them in the top shelf in the cabinet under the stove. Many thanks again!

-Brigitte

[hal]

Brigitte, Because of the fender well in the lowest opening next to the stove, we did not install a drawer. So, pots, pans & coffee pot are stored in this area plus the opening that is directly below the stove. One of the advantages of this system is that there are three different drawers based on depth to select from. We use the shallowest one to keep spices and other small food packets, etc. In the same opening, and on the same frame, we used a medium depth drawer. In the area directly below the microwave, we installed one of the deepest drawers. It is great for boxes of cereal, etc. Then in the opening just below, we installed a medium size drawers. Depending on the heighth of the opening, you can mix depths in the same frame.

Before you purchase any of the parts, please measure your cabinet openings. I understand that the factory may have made the openings in the 06 TMs narrower. If I could get to my TM I could measure the openings in my TM. If anyone wishes to measure their openings (height and width) and let me know the measurements, I could verify any such changes. I would also need to know the year of TM being measured. [email protected]

Hal

[hal]

Monday morning 8:30 a.m. Denver time. I just talked with Ed Lytle at the TrailManor factory and asked him about the dimensions of the under counter cabinet openings. He said that all TMs should have the same size openings as the floor plans have not been changed since the 80s. He had not been informed of any changes. So, the best thing you can do is measure the heigth and width of the openings. "If the Elfa cabinets fit, you must acquit" no, no, that is some other situation. If the cabinets fit, they should work for you.

Hal

[Bill]

Despite what Ed told you, the size of the openings did, in fact, change between my 2002 and my 2006, 2720SL model TMs. I built drawers for the first one, and am in the process of building drawers for the second one. The old drawers don't come anywhere near fitting the new TM - I tried them, thinking I could save the effort of rebuilding. The difference is in the width, something like an inch-and-a-half or two inches. Height and depth did not change.

I believe that TM buys the cabinets pre-fab from an outside vendor. TM cares about the overall dimensions, and the size of the opening for the oven. I think this is what Ed was referring to - these have not changed. However, the left-right location of the vertical partition below and to the right of the silverware drawer is not of much concern, and it appears that the vendor changed it somewhere along the line.

Moral: As Hal said, MEASURE YOUR PARTICULAR TM before you put any money down on prefab drawers.

Bill

[hal]

Bill, thanks for your sage advice. Anyone doing this install, please do measure your openings. We have a 2003 2720SD and they are the same identical size as our 1998. This warning should put eveyone on notice to measure the openings. Even then, if you do not give up too much space on the sides, there should be drawers that you could utilize in your TM. Once you measure your openings, please send me the figures, along with the year and model TrailManor that you have.

Thanks,

Hal

[[email protected]]

I visited the TM factory back in the summer and I could have sworn I saw them building the cabinets for the TMs that were on line. Was I mistaken?

[Bill]

Now I'm curious, too. I posted my original drawer plans for my 2002 2720SL, and Rick Newcomb volunteered to host them on his site at
http://home.comcast.net/~trailmanor/kitch.htm
The plans and photos are still there. As can be seen, the width of the drawers in the middle column (Drawers 2 and 7) was quite different from the drawers in the right-hand column (Drawers 3, 4, and 5). In my new 2006 2720SL, the drawers in these two columns have equal width.

DeanBilly, I stated that TM uses an outside vendor for kitchen cabinets based on the manufacturer's sticker that I found inside the cabinets in my 2002. It is certainly possible that TM has brought the operation in-house since then, and perhaps changed the inside dimensions at the same time.

Let us know what data you collect, Hal.

Bill

[hal]

Great looking plans Bill, I especially like the drawer that is located under the stove. Would it be possible to have that drawer installed at a lower point. This would be a great drawer to store pots and pans.

Hal

[hal]

Bill, I believe that I discovered the reason for the drawer being in the position that it is. The drawer must clear the fender well.

Also, my wife claims there are two smaller doors in stead of a single door in that opening on our TM. She is in and out of this opening a lot so I cannot deny this. (Also, she won't let me deny it). This opening on our TM is divided by a vertical face frame. Is yours the same? If so, what did you do with the face frame in this area?

What do you think of the side view of a drawer that would allow drawer to be installed at a lower level, yet would not eliminate storage space on top of wheel well and all the way back to TM inner wall?

Hal

[Bill]

Hal -

In my '02 2720SL:
o The left bay (under the oven) was covered by a single door.
o There was a single shelf in the left bay. I built the drawer just above this shelf.
o I'm not sure what you mean by a "vertical face frame" in this bay.
o The center bay (under the silverware drawer) was covered by two doors - a larger one above, and a smaller one near the floor.

Re your L-shaped drawer, that is exactly what I am now building for my 2006 TM. I am doing something similar for the bottom of the center bay.

Is anyone else seeing anything similar - or different - than what we are discussing? Does anyone else care? If not, Hal and I will take this off-line.

Bill

[BobRederick]

Bill
I care. I like the design Hal showed how it goes up over the wheel well. I might not have the same cabinet openings, but the concept is the same. Would it help to have a photo of the front of my cabinets -- possibly with dimensions?

[[email protected]]

I made an L shaped drawer under the oven and a short one in front of the wheel well.

[Leslie & Nick]

Bill,
Those were great plans for the rollout cabinet drawers! I had done the same thing with our kitchen cabinets a while ago - for the same reasons - bad backs and knees! :) We've gone the "plastic basket route" for the TM, and it has been a huge improvement, but I like the rollout drawers and may re-think the issue. Quick question: the slides you used, were they the "full extension" type or partial extension, or does it matter? I know those full extension slides are nice, but a little pricey. I agree with using the white spruce wood if you can find it - light and relatively strong for this purpose.

[BrigCA61]

Yes, please keep this thread going. We will be taking on this project so any and all details anyone can provide is very helpful.

Thanks!
Brigitte

[Bill]

Thanks, one and all, for the responses. I didn't realize so many people had done (or are contemplating) this project. Perhaps the TM factory will take note.

Bob, I would like to know the dimensions of the openings in the face frame. A dimensioned photo would be great. Or, a dimensioned drawing would be fine, and would occupy less of the space allocated to your "Attachments". Even a text list, perhaps using the drawer numbers shown on my plan for reference, would serve the purpose. This issue of the changed opening size has got me kind of bugged.

DeanBilly, the L-shaped drawer, and the short one in front of the wheel well, require different slides - the drawer-half has to be mounted at/near the top of the drawer, rather than wrapping around the lower edge of the drawer. What did you use?

Leslie & Nick - The slides I used were called "self-closing slides". Each slide has two parts - a fixed rail that is screwed to the cabinet, and a rail that is screwed to the drawer. Each of these parts has a single white nylon wheel. When you install the drawer, these two parts mate together. These self-closing slides are fine - the drawer pulls all the way out and is fully accessible. Home Depot and Lowes have identical self-closing slides - seems to me I bought the 18" size, and they fit well.

As I recall, the "full-extension slides" you refer to had three parts, and were a lot more expensive, as you point out.

More info, more questions, and more reports of results, would be welcome here.

Bill

[PaulineF]

Thanks to everyone for the comments, suggestions, pictures, and plans regarding storage. We really appreciated them.

We did return to the TM dealership this week and determined that the available storage space will meet our needs. We are scheduled to go back next Thursday to purchase the TM 2720 and get our orientation!

I am certain we will be interested in modifying the storage space with the wire type drawers, so any additional information that develops will be helpful.

Thanks again.
Pauline

[Carole]

I've made a copy of the plans, when we return from Arizona in two months,
my husband will have a nice project to complete. Thanks for all the info, I've learned a great deal from so many nice people.

Carole
2004 2619 TM
TV 2005 Nissan Titan