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View Full Version : Potential buyer of TM with 2002 Highlander w/V6 and towing package


InALaska
08-16-2005, 09:41 AM
We are considering purchasing a 2619 TM and have a 2002 Highlander V6 w/a towing package. Have read several posts and am concerned about using this vehicle for towing. If anyone has experience, good or bad, with towing the 2619 with a Highlander V6, I would appreciate your input.

InALaska
08-16-2005, 11:09 AM
Leon,

Thanks, I have done that already. Just wondering if there was any new information out there for me to read. I don't really want to buy a new vehicle AND a new TM, so we are trying to work with what we have. We like the hard side of the TM vs a tent trailer for many reasons. We are avid sea kayakers and have packed a double kayak for 18 days with our food and gear AND our 75.b black labrador and her food and gear without capsizing or sinking. Packing LIGHT isn't an issue in kayaking, it's packing SMART. Our purpose for a TT is to be traveling while my Husband does his photography, and I think his camera gear would put us over the weight limit alone. ;) We have been tent campers for many years and that's just not appealing on an extended trip. Well, we will continue to try and figure this out. In the meantime, any help beyond what's on the forum already would be a bonus.

Thanks!

Denny_A
08-16-2005, 09:51 PM
We are considering purchasing a 2619 TM and have a 2002 Highlander V6 w/a towing package. Have read several posts and am concerned about using this vehicle for towing. If anyone has experience, good or bad, with towing the 2619 with a Highlander V6, I would appreciate your input......the 2002 V6 Highlander; the following copied from an auto site:

Performance Base Number of Cylinders: 6 Base Engine Size: 3 liters Base Engine Type: V6 Horsepower: 220 hp Max Horsepower: 5800 rpm Torque: 222 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 4400 rpm Maximum Payload: 1325 lbs. Maximum Towing Capacity: 3500 lbs.

Numbers are about the same as a Honda Odyssey of the same vintage. I towed for 1 1/2 yrs with an Odyssey (torque 225 max @ 4600 rpm). Unsat. Max torque at low RPM is better than at higher RPM. Highlander achieves 222 Lb-ft at 4400 RPM. Sreviceable, but not a good thing West of the Mississippi.

The 3500 lb tow limit is probably (possibly?) a function of trailer aerodynamic drag. At least that's the case for the Honda Pilot and Acura MDX. If the Highlander's limitation is similar, then the Trailmanor MAY not be nearly as limiting as a normal, full height, high drag trailer. I.e., maybe 3800 or 4000 lbs is a reasonable limit for the low profle TM. Its drag is nearly 70% lower than that of a full size (high drag profile) trailer.

The only folx who can answer that question is Toyota. If you ask the right people you COULD get a rational answer. But I don't think so. The question would likely be referred all the way to Toyota USA. I tried sometime ago to get similar info from Honda, when I had my Odyssey (same 3500 lb limit), and never received a decipherable, logically clear response. Toyota may be just as vague - or unresponsive.

Bottom line opinion; I think you can tow safely with the Highlander as long as you pay attention to a) TM weight and b) Highlander Max Combined Gross Weigth Limit. That is, max gross of both Highlander and trailer combined. My Odyssey was so limited that I removed the center row seats when trailering, just to save an extra 110 lbs of weight.

Your owner's manual should list the MCGW somewhere. It could be an eye opener. Do the math. It'll help assist in making a decision based on more complete information.

Denny_A

Denny_A
08-17-2005, 10:19 AM
Somebody help me with this:
IIRC, some vehicles have one tow capacity for trailers, and a higher rating for boats...Perhaps because of the low profile...
Tow capacities (ratings) are arrived at, I think, for large hard side trailers with the frontal area like a big slab... Lots of wind resistance there..
Or am I not remembering correctly?????.....for Honda/Acura Pilot/MDX. Here's the link. Check the final paragraph, re. towing:

http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3028?...153457&mime=asc (http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3028?mid=2004083153457&mime=asc)

This excerpt from the towing discussion:

Customer feedback helped set the towing limit at 4500 pounds for boats and 3500 pounds for other types of trailers. A heavier load is acceptable with boats because their pointed bow shapes impose less aerodynamic drag on the towing vehicle than a slab-faced, square-cornered trailer.

Denny_A

rickst29
08-17-2005, 07:33 PM
You can probably handle the torque requirements of going up/down steep hills by simply being patient. (Low gear, with a tranny fluid cooler if it gets warm where you are. Alaska, maybe you won't need it.)

But, the unibody construction of the Highlander (frameless) could suffer bending/alignment problems if you load the vehicle heavily *and* drag the TM at the same time. The damage would be progressive: The more often you do this, the more bent-out-of-shape the car-based SUV will get.

You might take note, the new Hybrid Highlander has oodles of torque, available right from ZERO RPMs... but they DIDN'T raise the rated towing capacity. The limiting factor is the body, not the ft-lbs.

I think you should trade it for something truck-based: an "equally beat up" 4-Runner, or Pathfinder, etc. would be more suitable, much less worrisome, much less likely to get damaged by the trips.

Just my opinion, this is really just guessing.

fcatwo
08-17-2005, 10:11 PM
Not being an engineer I have no technical expertise to offer on the "frameless-vehicle" issue but I was down at our local health club a couple of weeks ago and saw weight lifters throwing around 300-400lbs of iron with no apparent damage to their frames. I'm thinking it would take more than the tongue weights we are dealing with to damage the frame of any vehicle with a 3500lb tow rating. Suspension components possibly if the weight is not properly distributed but not the frame. Just my $0.02.

People do overload however. I was hand loading a few buckets of walkway gravel at a sand and gravel place a few years back when a guy pulled in under the gravel hopper with his pickup and signaled for the operator to start loading. The truck sat down on the stops early on but the owner kept signaling for the tower operator to add more. Both rear tires finally gave up with a tremendous explosion and the owner must have set a new Olympic back-jump record before just standing with both hands on his head.

The tower operator calmly climbed down and pulled the truck back out of the way with a piece of heavy equipment. I didn't hang around to see how it turned out. The guy may have driven it out like that for all I know.

Denny_A
08-18-2005, 08:11 AM
..........snip.........
But, the unibody construction of the Highlander (frameless) could suffer bending/alignment problems if you load the vehicle heavily *and* drag the TM at the same time. The damage would be progressive: The more often you do this, the more bent-out-of-shape the car-based SUV will get. ...if the owner pays attention to published limits, your point is moot. I.e., do not exceed TV max weight limit, nor towing limit, nor combined gross weight limit. The question then becomes - Is the 3500 lb towing limit based on an assumption which does not apply to a LOW PROFILE, low drag trailer?

Denny_A

InALaska
08-18-2005, 08:14 AM
Denny,

Well, the GCW of the Highlander with the tow package (which includes a converter and larger radiator) is 7985 lb. Max tongue weight is 350 lb. Toyota will never give anyone a straight answer, so I'm not even going to try to ask them. My Husband and I drove our '97 Subaru across the country and back overloaded, but we weren't towing anything. I only have 30,000 miles on this vehicle so I'm hoping to keep it for a while. We may be looking at one of the Chalet's or Aliners. We don't plan on keeping this for more than a few years and will most likely move up to a B+motorhome or Class C motorhome then. Thanks for all of your help. We have lots of choices and still may get a different vehicle because we really like the TM. We'll see.

Bill
08-18-2005, 04:09 PM
Not being an engineer I have no technical expertise to offer on the "frameless-vehicle" issue but I was down at our local health club a couple of weeks ago and saw weight lifters throwing around 300-400lbs of iron with no apparent damage to their frames. I'm thinking it would take more than the tongue weights we are dealing with to damage the frame of any vehicle with a 3500lb tow rating.Frank -

I am an engineer, and I still have no expertise to offer on the frameless-vehicle issue. However, as was discussed in the thread on the Acura mrfxzpi a couple weeks ago, the bending force applied to the "non-frame" by the weight-distributing hitch could be a problem. The non-frame simply doesn't have as much strength in the bending direction as a steel-rail frame.

When I was in high school, my Dad had one of the early uni-body Dodge cars. Forget the name at the moment, but I remember the day he was driving down the highway not far from our home, and the uni-body simply gave up. As he reported it, it slowly and smoothly began to fold along a crosswise line just aft of the front seat. It sank lower and lower until something noisy happened - either the driveshaft hit the underbody, or the underbody hit the ground, I'm not sure which at this point. He got out, removed the license plates, and hitched a ride home.

Point is, this mid-body bending is just exactly the direction that a WDH stresses a vehicle. Will this particular vehicle bend? Who knows - I certainly don't - but I feel a lot more confident when the WDH is trying to bend a pair of long steel rails.

Bill

fcatwo
08-18-2005, 08:59 PM
Bill

I can see how that episode would raise questions in your mind. Having read in other posts that your Dad liked good equipment I'm guessing he was less than pleased with the experience.

Denny_A
08-18-2005, 10:53 PM
Denny,

Well, the GCW of the Highlander with the tow package (which includes a converter and larger radiator) is 7985 lb. Max tongue weight is 350 lb. Toyota will never give anyone a straight answer, so I'm not even going to try to ask them. ...........snip.........to ensure we've pondered every thing.

Assume the trailer is 3500 lbs., ready for towing.
Then 7985(GCW)- 3500 = 4485 lbs.
Dry weight of a 2002, V6, 2WD Highlander is 3660 lbs.
Add 300 lbs for two adult pax + 125 lbs fuel and the Tv is at 4085 lbs.
So, 4485 lbs - 4085 lbs = 400 lbs!
That is, w/the trailer at 3500 lbs + 2 adults + fuel, one would have 400 additional lbs for cargo whilst remaining within GCW rating.
Ad an adult or teenager - it's over.

Finally, if the TV is a 4WD, then the Highlander dry weight is 220 lbs. greater and cargo capacity, without additional peeps, is nil. If 2nd row seats can be removed, one can gain an additional 100 lbs or so of cargo capacity.:spock:

Re: Tongue weight: 600lbs on the tongue, no WDH = 600 lbs tongue weight! Six Hundred lbs on the tongue, with WDH connected properly = 200 lbs. on the hitch. Remember, 2/3 of the tongue weight (as down force) is "distributed" to the TV front axle and trailer axle. It's not an illusion. Torque applied to the TV frame is NOT weight. Down force xferred to the TV front axle, DUE TO torque at the hitch, is the resultant of that torque. On the other end, spring bars xfer force to the trailer frame, hence down force to the trailer axle. The 2 DOWN forces are equal and taken together equal 2/3 of the tongue weight. Means the tongue physically carries only 1/3 of the actual tongue weight.

GCW and tow weight are limiting, but not impossibly so. I towed for a 1.5 years with my Honda Odyssey, none the worse for wear. I just had to keep after the combined weight by weighing my trailer and TV before each extended camping trip. No problems, other than the odd snowstorm or 2 - but, that's a long story:rolleyes:.

Denny_A

grill-n-go
08-19-2005, 10:27 AM
InAlaska,

I'm guessing you've got just under a 1,000 Lbs to give before adding, you, your spouse, pets, toys, fuel, food, etc. and are over by 1 Lbs on dry tongue weight.

If you are planning to travel short distances over flat terrain you'll probably get away with it til it's time to trade for a new vehicle.

You are definitely testing the limits of what nature expects from your Highlander.

See if the dealer will let you "test tow", then you can see for yourself.