2006 Jeep Liberty CRD towing our 2005 3124KS

[Sptm 400]

First trip out heading south on NY Rt38 just south of Dryden NY

[hillbillyhotel]

looks grt ,
have fun and send more pictures

[TrailManorMan]

Met this owner this weekend, towing a 3124 with his Jeep Liberty.10278

[Padgett]

Diesels (CRD) have a lot of torque.

[rvcycleguy]

Met this owner this weekend, towing a 3124 with his Jeep Liberty.10278

what a load for that model Jeep. Too short of a wheel base and too light for braking.

I've got a Tundra and would not tow with anything less.

[Padgett]

Why ? The 4x4 Liberty was slightly over 4,000 lbs was rated at 5,000 lbs towing, the same as my GC and the CRD had more torque. It does only have a 105" wb and does look a bit nose high but that could be cured with a weight distributing hitch or maybe just air bags in the rear.

I am curious about this wheelbase thing, my GC is a 115" but I have towed more with less. The goat wagon was 112" and the TranSport 109". Never noticed any problems towing. What is the idea that you need a long wheelbase ? A shorter one would make manovering/backing easier.

[tentcamper]

Looks like a nice setup. Happy camping.

[rvcycleguy]

Why ? The 4x4 Liberty was slightly over 4,000 lbs was rated at 5,000 lbs towing, the same as my GC and the CRD had more torque. It does only have a 105" wb and does look a bit nose high but that could be cured with a weight distributing hitch or maybe just air bags in the rear.

I am curious about this wheelbase thing, my GC is a 115" but I have towed more with less. The goat wagon was 112" and the TranSport 109". Never noticed any problems towing. What is the idea that you need a long wheelbase ? A shorter one would make manovering/backing easier.

From personal experience, that 3124 can be packed for camping and weighed at Cat Scales at nearly 4500lbs. IMHO, anything that close to the factory limits is problematic. I can almost guarantee you that the TM will be pushing the TV around constantly.

[TrailManorMan]

From personal experience, that 3124 can be packed for camping and weighed at Cat Scales at nearly 4500lbs. IMHO, anything that close to the factory limits is problematic. I can almost guarantee you that the TM will be pushing the TV around constantly.


The TM I saw had a WDH and was level, I too thought it was short towing long but he was on his first trip and had very little experience, I would love to talk to him in a year after he tows awhile.in the meantime he was camping! :)

[Redtail Cruiser]

From personal experience, that 3124 can be packed for camping and weighed at Cat Scales at nearly 4500lbs. IMHO, anything that close to the factory limits is problematic. I can almost guarantee you that the TM will be pushing the TV around constantly.

+1 rvcycleguy, it's not how well it tows, it's how well it stops. In a panic stop situation, I wouldn't want to be anywhere close to that type of setup.

I watched a Tacoma jackknife into a ditch towing a two axle TT. The trailer looked half again longer than the truck. Way too much trailer for that truck. That's no way to start or finish a camping trip.

[rvcycleguy]

+1 rvcycleguy, it's not how well it tows, it's how well it stops. In a panic stop situation, I wouldn't want to be anywhere close to that type of setup.

I watched a Tacoma jackknife into a ditch towing a two axle TT. The trailer looked half again longer than the truck. Way too much trailer for that truck. That's no way to start or finish a camping trip.

I hear ya, That was my point... by towing, I mean pulling and stopping. As someone that owns a 3124 that when loaded can be quite heavy, and on the gulf coast where its flat terrain, you have to have all your wits about you to tow safely. I hate to tow close to any margins for brakes, torque, wheelbase, etc. It can be an accident waiting to happen and avoidable and unneccesary. thanks... don't get me started on this topic of tow safety.

[Sptm 400]

As far as the stopping ability of the Liberty, it stops better than a lot of pick up trucks I have owned or driven. Is it the optimum TV, no but it gets the job done very well. I have modified it many ways and have gone over the scales grossing out a little over 11,500 lbs hauling scrap metal with this same TV and no brakes on the trailer. That was a little crazy.
As far as equipment goes I have a Firestone air bag rear suspension and run a WD hitch. The engine & transmission computers have been modified by Green Diesel Engineering, and I have a SunCoast Diesel torque converter installed. I have power, stability, reliability, and fuel economy. So far the computer hasn't dropped below 26 MPG towing this unit. I get upwards of 35 MPG on the highway when not towing. The next set of tires on "Libby" will most likely be 10 ply just for a little more stiffness and stability.

[Tunces]

Listen to your elders !

[Padgett]

Dunno. Went all over the midwest with a tandem axle trailer mostly hand built from mobile home axles and frames Typical trailer was 1500-1800 lbs with a 3000-3800 lb car (varied over the years) & pulled with either an econoline van or a Pontiac station wagon.

Mostly with a hand operated electric brake (had a lever and the further you moved it the more brake you got. Could have been tapped into the brake line but I did not feel comfortable with that.

These modern thingies make life much easier. Most I use a dolly anymore when I need to move a car and it has surge brakes.

Wish I had something as capable as a Jeep Liberty CRD back then. Only time it was realy bothersome was back in the daze of the 55 mph speed limit & think it was on I 75 north of Dayton. Concrete slab road. Somthing about the road was on a harmonic of the rig and at anything over 50 mph everything would start bouncing. Very annoying.

Frankly taking a single port '70 Volkswagon Westphalia over the mountains west of Cody was more nerve wracking.

Enclosed pic of toy & toy was typical of the time & my yout & not bad at all to tow. Wagon often won tow car races. Did not know about WDH then, just had airlifts, HD everything, front and rear sway bars, and posi. Jeep is much better.

[moaboy]

I saw a chart once that showed a ratio of wheel base to recommended size of TT being towed. The longer the wb, the longer the TT that was suggested could be towed. I have no idea how they came up with this or where I saw it. Raises some interesting points though...

[Bill]

Regarding wheelbase of the tow vehicle. The reasoning behind a longer wheelbase is that occasionally the trailer tries to take control of your tow vehicle, and point it in a direction you didn't intend to go. Think blowout, or trailer sway, or a sudden maneuver to avoid a road hazard, or sudden crosswind as you come out from behind a hill, or any number of things. A long wheelbase on the tow vehicle is better able to resist, and keep you in control. A short wheelbase tends to sacrifice control.

Not a consideration to be ignored. In Arizona, at least, I have seen a number of mishaps with the trailer and tow vehicle off the road, the trailer on its side, and long black "snake tracks" on the pavement where the trailer took control of the steering. Often, the location is where the road was located between steep banks, and suddenly emerged into the clear. AZDOT posts SUDDEN WIND warning signs, and often an airport-style orange wind sock on a pole, but people tend to ignore them.

Bill

[Padgett]

Might mention that my heep is equipped with ABS, TC, ESC, & TSC
"Trailer Sway Control (TSC)
TSC uses sensors in the vehicle to recognize an excessively swaying trailer and will take the appropriate actions to attempt to stop the sway. The system may reduce engine power and apply the brake of the appropriate wheel(s) to counteract the sway of the trailer. TSC will become active automatically once an excessively
swaying trailer is recognized. No driver action is required."

Wonder if it works.

Some may disagree but I have had blowouts on trailers before that immediately induce sway (or just gone to speed wobble). My reaction is to apply the trailer brakes lightly then take my foot off the gas. Of course if dumb enough not to have trailer brakes hooked up...

Nice thing about a TM is that the side area is low to the ground and much less than a conventional trailer, in fact about like a car on a car trailer.

ps have seem more accidents occur from overcorrection than from the initial happening. One thing I learned as a racing driver was to never do anything suddenly. React instantly but slowly.

[Sptm 400]

Padgett, Love your Old Pontiac wagon towing photo. Reminds me of when I was stationed in TX back in 82 towing a 69 Camero drag car w/ my 74 ElCamino. As far as every ones advice, thank you. Is my Libby going to be my permanent "forever" TV? No, but it is what I have at this time. Is it capable? Yes, with the 330 lb/ft of torque I have Libby does a good job. I have been towing for the better part of 30 years. Over time I have learned to 1 - Double check everything, if in question check again! 2 - Always error on the side of safety. 3 - any doubts refer to rule 1 or don't make the trip unless the doubt is removed!

[Padgett]

Well I've a few years (decade ?) on you but would just add one thing. If anything feels or sounds strange, stop and do a walk around check. Might be a tire going low or something falling off. Only time I had max adrenaline going was when towing an A/SR on I-75 when the whole hitch coupler broke off the trailer.

[Padgett]

Something has been running around in my synaps and just realized what it is: suspect the distance fron the rear axle to the hitch to be as or more important to tow stability as the wheelbase. This is not something that appears in the specs.

Just measured the heep and is 35", checking the proportion on the wagon and looks like it was 48". Now lets assume the trailer starts to sway. As it rotates the lateral force is exerted at the hitch and the torque arm against the rear tires is the product of the length of the arm and the force.

In other words the sideways force on the tires is only 3/4 of what it was on the wagon. I suspect this is why it feels so stable Now the reaction force at the steering wheel is a function of the wheelbase so it helps there but if the sideways force is enough to break the rear tires loose, what the front does really does not matter. On a slippery surface fahgedabowdit.

So the closer the rear tires are to the hitch, the more stable it will be and a WDH will have no effect on sway. Looking back I suspect the big front and rear anti-roll bars on the wagon (part of the goat package) were more necessary than I thought. WK2 has a big rear bar also.

Strange by I suspect part of my attraction to the WK2 was the similarity to the E-types of my yout (before a 'vette was the cheapest thing I could race - you had to be in Michigan in the early '70s to understand). DOHC 6, independant front and rear suspension, four wheel disk brakes, 50-50 weight distribution, front and rear antiroll bars, 20-25 mpg... Is there nothing worse than a convert ?

Bottom line for a 4,000 lb tow vehicle I suspect that stability is more a factor of the distance from the rear axle to the hitch than the wheelbase and perhaps the wheelbase needs to be in proportion to that distance. This would explain the short manufactured home tow vehicles: the hitch is within a foot or two of the rear axle. Not also the hitch ball is located so the trailer tongue will make a straight line through the front and rear axles.

[allenj]

We've towed our 2720SL with our 2005 Liberty CRD for 6 years now. We love camping in the mountains of NC and VA and it's always handled the grades with no problem. We've never gotten the MPG others have from this vehicle (max 23 mpg even without the trailer), but can usually get close to 20 mpg with the trailer, which was the whole reason we have this package.

[tentcamper]

I have always believed that the shorter distance between the rear ball and the axle is better. I think of it like a 5th wheel. Where a 5th wheel sit over the axle and they say there is no sway. So the closer you are to the axle you reduce the sway. But there is so much more to it, such as how much mass the trailer has to move, wheel base length and the stiffness and play of the TV.

[gocntry]

Ehh if a Jeep can tow this it can tow a Trailmanor :D10444

Picture nabbed from Rv.net

[Kidkraz]

Looks like it not bottomed out, but can't say I would tow that sized camper with the small car. Wonder how long it takes him to stop, or pick up speed?

[Padgett]

From the wheels I'd venture that is a '14 Grand Cherokee (mine is a 12) with either the hemi or diesel and rated for 7,400 lbs towing with the factory package. Almost all of the Heritage Glen trailers (including the '31) are less than that.

I suspect that is a publicity photo since I would not want to tow something like that either.

BTW it only looks small.

[LoveToCamp]

As an owner of a Grand Cherokee diesel, I would not tow a trailer that size with it. My ~3500 lb TM was more than the engine could hold back on downhills. I was using the brakes much more than with my 2007 diesel GC. The 8-speed tranny doesn't do nearly the job in conjunction with the engine and the computer programming, when it comes to maintaining a lower speed on downhills.

I love my GC, but would not recommend it for towing over 5,000 lbs, that's for sure! Simply for the downhill engine braking. All other aspects are great!

[Padgett]

I can understand that. The 07 CRD GC was 500 lbs lighter and had a higher compression (17.5:1 vs 15.5:1) both of which would contribute to more "hill retard" for the same trailer.

The 8-speed also needs some sorting so may not have been providing the right ratio and lockup to assist hill retard (most TCCs unlock below 5% throttle to avoid stalling when stopping.

Were you using the manual downshift ?

[LoveToCamp]

Yes, I was manually downshifting at the top of the hill, at the speed I wanted to maintain on the downgrade. However, the owner's manual states that, to avoid damage to the engine, the tranny will upshift when RPM gets too high. That alone tells me that they don't have enough compression to effectively use the engine for braking.

[Padgett]

Diesels are inherantly low winding engines. Mainly because diesel burns slower.. My notes show the EcoDiesel producing max power at 3600 rpm and max speed (redline) is 4800 (as opposed to the Pentastar which peaks at redline, 6300 rpm).

I suspect the diesel will do an autoupshift at about 4500-4700 rpm. If lower the trans may need reflashing.

[LoveToCamp]

Thanks for the upshift target. I will watch when I tow next weekend.

[mecicon]

Ehh if a Jeep can tow this it can tow a Trailmanor :D10444

Picture nabbed from Rv.net

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[Padgett]

Different strokes for different folks. I've been towing with 6 cyl engines since the last century and NP. Usually I don't tow more than 5,000 lbs though and live in the flatlands (worst grade I see often is Monteagle).

Do think that was a publicity photo and major issue is the frontal area, even with a 31' trailer we are still talking less than 50' OA. Would want a rear vision camera & probably no more than 50-55 mph. Would be more concerned about the trans temp than the engine.

Though agree "should" is a matter of skill, experience, and planning ahead but biggest difficulty I have is backing into the "grotto" in my back yard (doesn't quite fit the 8' door on the back garage. Yet.)

[mecicon]

Though agree "should" is a matter of skill, experience, and planning ahead but biggest difficulty I have is backing into the "grotto" in my back yard (doesn't quite fit the 8' door on the back garage. Yet.)


No problem with 6 cyl engines and with your "vast" towing experience it isn't a major issue either. I "could" also tow with that set up, but I would not feel comfortable. Living on the "margins for error" is what my previous TV offered.

[Padgett]

Only thing that is vast is why I had to take an electric knife to the seat bolsters in the Crossfire.

Think we are in agreement that while the Forest River Heritage Glen in the photo is probably within the weight limit of the GC (without a rock collection) it is probably not in the 60sq ft frontal area limit & suspect that is a publicity photo of some kind.

OTOH I monitor coolant, oil, and trans temps while towing and feel that the 6 in my GC coupled with the factory towing package (not an add-on) has pleanty of margin for the 2720SL.