PDA

View Full Version : Elkmont Roof Repairs done at Trailmanor


brulaz
11-14-2010, 07:09 PM
Ed at Trailmanor persuaded me to haul my Elkmont 24 down to a dealer to have my roof fixed under warranty. Once I got it to Ohio a couple of weeks ago, they decided to transport it and fix it at the factory, and we just picked it up yesterday on our way to Florida.

As my leaks occurred in the vicinity of the door, where there was a depression in the roof, they first took off the Awning and the plastic strips. Then they put down some sheet Al (or plastic? I haven't had a chance to get a close look) that goes from one side of the trailer to the other. This covers the panel seam that crosses the trailer there, and extends forward almost 2 feet. It's a big panel and appears to be well sealed to the roof. The original depression in the roof is covered by it and appears to be gone.

Ed tells me the caulk/sealant they now use is 3M's new 760 (I think), one of the new "hybrid" polyurethane sealants. It is totally different from the original silicone and the silicone I used to try to repair the leaks and seems much more secure. They also used a lot more of the stuff.

We'll see. They leak-tested the roof thoroughly, but only time and much driving and shaking will tell. I'm optimistic though. The roof "looks" really good.

The factory also replaced some interior trim that was going bad because of the water, gave me a new axle, wheel and tires ('cause of some odd tire wear I was getting), and washed all the bugs off. With the new style alloy wheels and clean exterior, we hardly recognized it!

We were obviously very happy with all they did, and Ed, in particular, was a pleasure to deal with.

Wavery
11-14-2010, 09:52 PM
Ed at Trailmanor persuaded me to haul my Elkmont 24 down to a dealer to have my roof fixed under warranty. Once I got it to Ohio a couple of weeks ago, they decided to transport it and fix it at the factory, and we just picked it up yesterday on our way to Florida.

As my leaks occurred in the vicinity of the door, where there was a depression in the roof, they first took off the Awning and the plastic strips. Then they put down some sheet Al (or plastic? I haven't had a chance to get a close look) that goes from one side of the trailer to the other. This covers the panel seam that crosses the trailer there, and extends forward almost 2 feet. It's a big panel and appears to be well sealed to the roof. The original depression in the roof is covered by it and appears to be gone.

Ed tells me the caulk/sealant they now use is 3M's new 760 (I think), one of the new "hybrid" polyurethane sealants. It is totally different from the original silicone and the silicone I used to try to repair the leaks and seems much more secure. They also used a lot more of the stuff.

We'll see. They leak-tested the roof thoroughly, but only time and much driving and shaking will tell. I'm optimistic though. The roof "looks" really good.

The factory also replaced some interior trim that was going bad because of the water, gave me a new axle, wheel and tires ('cause of some odd tire wear I was getting), and washed all the bugs off. With the new style alloy wheels and clean exterior, we hardly recognized it!

We were obviously very happy with all they did, and Ed, in particular, was a pleasure to deal with.

Sure am glad to hear that TM is trying to get on top of this water leaking issue.

The axle issue is a little disturbing. Is it a 5K# axle?

brulaz
11-15-2010, 05:45 PM
The axle issue is a little disturbing. Is it a 5K# axle?

How do you tell? The Dexter # on it's shipping label is 1327650

The tries are the same size. The new wheels have 6 lugs.

Wavery
11-15-2010, 06:15 PM
How do you tell? The Dexter # on it's shipping label is 1327650

The tries are the same size. The new wheels have 6 lugs.
I'm pretty sure (by looking at their website) that 6-lugs is the 5200# axle (don't hold me to that). It has 12" brakes which is a huge improvement. I would love to know for sure.
http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/1080235/f/6-8K_cat_4-07/4000-6000_lbs.pdf

If they switched you from a 5 lug to a 6-lug, I hope that they gave you a new spare too.......

Barb&Tim
11-15-2010, 07:01 PM
Hmm ... I have 6 lugs on my 2010 2720SL but i was fairly certain it's not a 5k axle -- now i'm wondering?

Tim

Barb&Tim
11-15-2010, 07:44 PM
Ok, just checked my Dexter Axle Book.

Axle Capacity Lugs Brake Size
-----------------------------------
5.2k 6 12"
4.4k 6 10"
3.5k 4or5or6 10"



Tim

ZekenSpider
11-15-2010, 08:13 PM
Hmm ... I have 6 lugs on my 2010 2720SL but i was fairly certain it's not a 5k axle -- now i'm wondering?

Tim

TM has used the 3500# axle since well before 2000. Before 2010 they used 14" wheels/tires that had a 5 bolt pattern. The 2010 models all up sized to 15" wheels/tires with 6 bolts. The axle rating is still 3,500# but placarded at 3,640#. They did this calculation by adding the weight of the wheels, hubs and tires to 3,500# (70# per wheel/tire/hub x 2 + 3,500 = 3,640#) since the axle does not carry these rolling items (it is carried by them).

So far, I do not believe TM is using a 5K axle.

Jerry

Barb&Tim
11-15-2010, 08:53 PM
Thanks Jerry.you are correct, i just checked and the GAWR is 3640 for my 2720SL.

Wavery
11-15-2010, 09:29 PM
Thanks Jerry.you are correct, i just checked and the GAWR is 3640 for my 2720SL.

You might want to give Dexter a call.......I don't have a lot of confidence in TMs ratings.

From what I see on the Dexter website, the 3500# axles still have 5 lugs. The 4400# and 5200# axle has 6 lugs. There may be a variety of reasons that TM may not want to publish a higher axle rating and TM owners should respect that.

brulaz
11-16-2010, 05:27 PM
The drums are 10", and Ed said that the spare will work so it must be new too.

Wavery
11-16-2010, 06:42 PM
The drums are 10", and Ed said that the spare will work so it must be new too.

OUCH!! To bad you didn't know then, what you know now....... Maybe they would have let you upgrade to the 5200# axle for the price difference. Those 12" brakes would sure be nice.

It's not a big deal.........it would just be nice to have that extra cushion.

brulaz
11-17-2010, 05:33 PM
OUCH!! To bad you didn't know then, what you know now....... Maybe they would have let you upgrade to the 5200# axle for the price difference. Those 12" brakes would sure be nice.

It's not a big deal.........it would just be nice to have that extra cushion.

Maybe. But I think the Elkmonts must be a few hundred pounds lighter than the folding Trailmanors, at least the way you guys load them. I keep hearing about people with folding Trailmanors exceeding their GAWR, but that would be pretty hard with the Elkmont.

My loaded trailer's GAW is typically 300-400# less than the GAWR and the GVW is typically 500-600# less than the trailers GVWR. And the other Elkmont weights I've seen are lower than mine.

Even when we moved my daughter across the continent, and crammed all her stuff down the centre of the trailer, and had to take it out each night, we were still 100# less than the GAWR. (However my TV's rear axle was way over on that trip).

Wavery
11-17-2010, 05:56 PM
Maybe. But I think the Elkmonts must be a few hundred pounds lighter than the folding Trailmanors, at least the way you guys load them. I keep hearing about people with folding Trailmanors exceeding their GAWR, but that would be pretty hard with the Elkmont.

My loaded trailer's GAW is typically 300-400# less than the GAWR and the GVW is typically 500-600# less than the trailers GVWR. And the other Elkmont weights I've seen are lower than mine.

Even when we moved my daughter across the continent, and crammed all her stuff down the centre of the trailer, and had to take it out each night, we were still 100# less than the GAWR. (However my TV's rear axle was way over on that trip).
In your case, I was thinking more of the brake size than the weight bearing capacity. If you could have gotten the 12" brakes for ~$100 extra, It would be nice to not have to be concerned about the brakes over-heating on long mountain grades.

brulaz
11-18-2010, 03:18 PM
Yes, bigger is better when it comes to brakes. But so far we seem ok.

Certainly part of the GAWR and GVWR is dependent upon the brake capacity. And I do use the transmission to brake on downhills, mostly because I'm more concerned about the rear drum brakes on the truck than the trailer. We often exceed the Tacoma's GVWR.

By the way, I found a Dexter Torflex Axle catalogue online. It shows that the 2300-3500# axles use #10 mounting brackets which are 10" long, but the 4000-6000# axles use #11 brackets which are 12" long. Mine are 10", so they must be 2300-3500# (hopefully 3500#).

cochise
11-19-2010, 11:40 AM
If you crawl under the trailer, you can find the serial number and the weight rating of the axle, it is stamped on it.

Wavery
11-19-2010, 12:28 PM
If you crawl under the trailer, you can find the serial number and the weight rating of the axle, it is stamped on it.
It's funny...........looking at those pics makes me dizzy......:new_all_c

brulaz
11-19-2010, 03:26 PM
If you crawl under the trailer, you can find the serial number and the weight rating of the axle, it is stamped on it.

Thanks. I missed that small print near the black water tank. So definitely 3500#, not counting wheels,rims and tires. Hence the 3620# GAWR (which includes wheels,rims and tires).

By the way, it rained pretty hard down here at Long Key FL, and no leaks!! And that big patch they put on top seems to be some sort of plastic.

Wavery
11-19-2010, 04:00 PM
Thanks. I missed that small print near the black water tank. So definitely 3500#, not counting wheels,rims and tires. Hence the 3620# GAWR (which includes wheels,rims and tires).

By the way, it rained pretty hard down here at Long Key FL, and no leaks!! And that big patch they put on top seems to be some sort of plastic.

HMMMMMMM!!!!! I wonder what the Sun will do to that plastic, over time?????

You might want to consider putting a coat of paint on it to give it some UV protection.

brulaz
11-20-2010, 07:59 AM
HMMMMMMM!!!!! I wonder what the Sun will do to that plastic, over time?????

You might want to consider putting a coat of paint on it to give it some UV protection.

Real Good Idea. I'll do that.

Bigbit
11-20-2010, 08:58 AM
Make sure that the plastic will "take" the paint you use, or you'll just have a peeling mess on your hands.

We're getting some significant rains this weekend in So. Cal., so this will be another good test to see how our "virgin" factory roof will hold up. We're leaving tomorrow for Buellton for some pre-Thanksgiving camping, so we'll be towing the rig in the rain with a bit of wind - a first for us with the Elkmont. We plan to take it slow.

Wavery
11-20-2010, 10:04 AM
Make sure that the plastic will "take" the paint you use, or you'll just have a peeling mess on your hands.

We're getting some significant rains this weekend in So. Cal., so this will be another good test to see how our "virgin" factory roof will hold up. We're leaving tomorrow for Buellton for some pre-Thanksgiving camping, so we'll be towing the rig in the rain with a bit of wind - a first for us with the Elkmont. We plan to take it slow.

Good luck with it. I hope that this isn't as big an event as they are forecasting.

Bigbit
11-20-2010, 11:06 PM
Well, since our RV storage facility isn't open until 10AM tomorrow, and we want to hit the road earlier than that, we went and got the trailer and put it in the driveway late this afternoon. After some pretty hard and prolonged rain today, still no sign of leaks. So far, so good!

brulaz
11-21-2010, 07:27 AM
Make sure that the plastic will "take" the paint you use, or you'll just have a peeling mess on your hands.


Yes, I was wondering about that. This plastic is really shiny and water beads up on it. I could fine sand it, but maybe there is a chemical primer that is better?

Is the original caulk on yours silicone based? Ours was. The new stuff they're using (polyurethane-hybrid) is quite different. More solid feeling, not near as stretchy and seems to stick to just about anything. Apparently this is what they're using on all the new ones.

Wavery
11-21-2010, 12:15 PM
Yes, I was wondering about that. This plastic is really shiny and water beads up on it. I could fine sand it, but maybe there is a chemical primer that is better?

Is the original caulk on yours silicone based? Ours was. The new stuff they're using (polyurethane-hybrid) is quite different. More solid feeling, not near as stretchy and seems to stick to just about anything. Apparently this is what they're using on all the new ones.
If the plastic is really shiny, it isn't polyethylene. It's more than likely good old fashion Plexiglas. It has the same characteristics as F/G (for painting).

I would sand it with 180g paper, put a coat of epoxy primer on it (allow primer to dry 24 hours), quick-sand it with 220G paper then a coat or 2 of LP Marine paint (wet-on-wet). It will protect that panel for 20 years and look great. It can be done with a roller. If you leave the plexi exposed to the Sun, I give it 5 years before it starts cracking (unless you cover the trailer).

Bigbit
11-21-2010, 03:08 PM
Is the original caulk on yours silicone based? Ours was. The new stuff they're using (polyurethane-hybrid) is quite different. More solid feeling, not near as stretchy and seems to stick to just about anything. Apparently this is what they're using on all the new ones.

I have no idea. I've never been up on the roof or at roof level. But it's been through several healthy rainfalls now without any sign of leakage.

brulaz
11-22-2010, 05:50 AM
Thanks Wayne, that's what I'll do.

Bigbit, it sounds like you got a good one. Congrats.

Wavery
11-22-2010, 10:51 AM
Thanks Wayne, that's what I'll do.

Bigbit, it sounds like you got a good one. Congrats.

When you do the 1st sanding, be sure to get rid of 100% of the shiny surface. ;)

When sanding the primer, just a light hand sanding. All you want to do is remove the wax that comes out during the drying stage. Don't let the primer sit on there more than a couple of days without painting. A lot of people make that mistake. Primer attracts all sorts of contaminants (that's it's job) and if left too long, it does more harm than good.

Also remember not to try to put down thick coats. A thin coat of primer is fine. 2 thin coats of LP is a lot better than 1 thick coat.

brulaz
12-13-2010, 06:09 PM
We've had a couple of good rain events down here near Fort Myers Fl and the factory roof patch has held up very well. It's such a relief not to worry about leaks.

Wayne, that paint you recommended (LP Marine TopDeck Polyurethane with a separate marine epoxy primer) is OUTGAGEOUSLY expensive. I was looking at $150 for a quart of primer plus a quart of white topdeck.

So I went to Lowes and bought a quart of Rustoleum Topdeck Marine for $12, no primer, and rolled on 2 coats after a thorough sanding (150grit). Following your recommendation (in spirit at least) I figured marine topdeck designed for fibreglass and high UV environments would be best.

I don't really care how it looks as it's on the roof (of an upright), it's just the UV protection that's needed. And there's still half a quart left in case I need to redo it in a couple of years.

Wavery
12-13-2010, 06:42 PM
We've had a couple of good rain events down here near Fort Myers Fl and the factory roof patch has held up very well. It's such a relief not to worry about leaks.

Wayne, that paint you recommended (LP Marine TopDeck Polyurethane with a separate marine epoxy primer) is OUTGAGEOUSLY expensive. I was looking at $150 for a quart of primer plus a quart of white topdeck.

So I went to Lowes and bought a quart of Rustoleum Topdeck Marine for $12, no primer, and rolled on 2 coats after a thorough sanding (150grit). Following your recommendation (in spirit at least) I figured marine topdeck designed for fibreglass and high UV environments would be best.

I don't really care how it looks as it's on the roof (of an upright), it's just the UV protection that's needed. And there's still half a quart left in case I need to redo it in a couple of years.

Sounds like a good choice. It should protect the plastic from UV. That's all that's important. I mainly recommended the other because I wanted it to last until I get the camper....... :D

Shandysplace
12-13-2010, 06:44 PM
How would you compare this treatment to a professionally applied coat of high quality wax? Since the surface you applied the topdeck to is not fiberglass, would there be a concern of any negative affects between the topdeck and that surface?

We had serious moisture issues with our 3326 last winter after many consecutive days of rain under an ADCO cover. We decided to go w/o a cover on our Elkmont for this reason. Your solution is interesting. We thought of having the roof waxed each Spring and waxing the rest of the trailer ourselves each year.

Wavery
12-13-2010, 07:18 PM
How would you compare this treatment to a professionally applied coat of high quality wax? Since the surface you applied the topdeck to is not fiberglass, would there be a concern of any negative affects between the topdeck and that surface?

We had serious moisture issues with our 3326 last winter after many consecutive days of rain under an ADCO cover. We decided to go w/o a cover on our Elkmont for this reason. Your solution is interesting. We thought of having the roof waxed each Spring and waxing the rest of the trailer ourselves each year.
Fiberglass is nothing but glass fibers soaked it polyester resin (plastic). Plexiglas is like fiberglass without the fiber.....

High quality wax has some UV protection but it burns off fairly rapidly..You can't compare that to a good coat of paint that gives 100% UV protection. It would be like comparing sun-screen lotion with wearing a jacket.

brulaz
12-14-2010, 07:47 AM
How would you compare this treatment to a professionally applied coat of high quality wax? Since the surface you applied the topdeck to is not fiberglass, would there be a concern of any negative affects between the topdeck and that surface?

We had serious moisture issues with our 3326 last winter after many consecutive days of rain under an ADCO cover. We decided to go w/o a cover on our Elkmont for this reason. Your solution is interesting. We thought of having the roof waxed each Spring and waxing the rest of the trailer ourselves each year.

My main concern was to protect the plastic sheet (factory roof repair) from UV. Like Wayne says, white paint has to be better than wax.

As for negative effects, ... we'll just have to wait and see. My main concern right now is that it'll not stick and start peeling because I went the cheap route.

There's a lot of other plastic strips and bits (like the roof vents) that will probably deteriorate with age because of UV. But they would be a lot easier to repair/replace than this big, glued-down, plastic panel. Of course the Al panels should be impervious to UV.

Guess UV protection and cleanliness are some of the main reasons for the ADCO covers? We don't have one and for now just plan to leave the trailer out and keep it clean. Waxing everything seems like a good idea that might very well help with both concerns.

Wavery
12-14-2010, 08:26 AM
I learned the paint trick on my sailboat.

I had a lot of teak wood on the exterior of my boat and I used to put a coat of high UV varnish on it every 3 months (a weekend job). If I skipped a 3-month coat, the varnish would deteriorate to the point that I would have to strip it all back to bare wood and start over with 8-coats of new varnish (a 2-week job).

This was fine when we lived aboard in a marina but when we started sailing around the world, we didn't want to be saddled with varnish work at every port. That's when I decided the give the varnish a light sand and apply a coat of paint over my beautiful teak. After sailing around the world for 10+ years, we sanded off the paint and applied a new coat of varnish. We had our beautiful teak back.

Mr. Adventure
12-19-2010, 07:49 AM
If the plastic is really shiny, it isn't polyethylene. It's more than likely good old fashion Plexiglas. It has the same characteristics as F/G (for painting).

I would sand it with 180g paper, put a coat of epoxy primer on it (allow primer to dry 24 hours), quick-sand it with 220G paper then a coat or 2 of LP Marine paint (wet-on-wet). It will protect that panel for 20 years and look great. It can be done with a roller. If you leave the plexi exposed to the Sun, I give it 5 years before it starts cracking (unless you cover the trailer).

Without knowing what the material is, what it's been coated with, or whether it already has appropriate solar stabilizers, you can't possibly know whether it needs to be painted or what to paint it with if it did.

This might have been a great idea for a boat or a 1995 model that needs maintenance, but this one sounds like a really bad idea to me. Wouldn't it be a better idea to just leave this alone and see how the factory repair does, considering that it's always a good idea to keep new vehicles and their factory fixes in a condition where you could ask the factory to work on them again if you want them to?

brulaz
12-19-2010, 09:13 AM
Without knowing what the material is, what it's been coated with, or whether it already has appropriate solar stabilizers, you can't possibly know whether it needs to be painted or what to paint it with if it did.

The repair appears to be holding up well; no leaks so far. But I suspect much of that is the new hybrid polyurethane caulk the factory is using, not the plastic sheet.

The plastic sheet appears identical to that used on the wall above the shoulder height shower wall of our Elkmont. The paint job has not caused any harm, from what I can tell, and is not peeling off so far. And I'm quite sure that the 2 coats of rather thick paint is blocking much of the UV, whether necessary or not.

Anyway, I enjoy puttering around with our Elkmont. But am glad the factory did the major stuff, despite the pain of getting the trailer to factory. Hopefully it will not be necessary again.

Wavery
12-19-2010, 09:22 AM
Without knowing what the material is, what it's been coated with, or whether it already has appropriate solar stabilizers, you can't possibly know whether it needs to be painted or what to paint it with if it did.

This might have been a great idea for a boat or a 1995 model that needs maintenance, but this one sounds like a really bad idea to me. Wouldn't it be a better idea to just leave this alone and see how the factory repair does, considering that it's always a good idea to keep new vehicles and their factory fixes in a condition where you could ask the factory to work on them again if you want them to?
Ya!!!! That idea worked out real well with the brand new trailer. The paint can do no harm. It will protect the plastic from UV as long as it lasts and it is a heck of a lot easier than trying to keep the trailer covered.